HFQ Official Snippet #22

I've been reading through the posts here and the suggestion that makes the most sense to me is that the sejins who participated in the War Against Fallen were given a second language to enable them to use it for encrypted communication in battle in the same way that Navaho was used in WW2 by the American armed forces.

Don

n7axw wrote:I've been reading through the posts here and the suggestion that makes the most sense to me is that the sejins who participated in the War Against Fallen were given a second language to enable them to use it for encrypted communication in battle in the same way that Navaho was used in WW2 by the American armed forces.

Don

That's certainly possible, but I don't know if Khody would have used Spanish to hide his thoughts in his journal. Especially if those thoughts were doubts, and he didn't want others to read them.

AncientMariner wrote:

n7axw wrote:I've been reading through the posts here and the suggestion that makes the most sense to me is that the sejins who participated in the War Against Fallen were given a second language to enable them to use it for encrypted communication in battle in the same way that Navaho was used in WW2 by the American armed forces.

Don

That's certainly possible, but I don't know if Khody would have used Spanish to hide his thoughts in his journal. Especially if those thoughts were doubts, and he didn't want others to read them.

With my guess, there would indeed be some risk should the Archangels or another seijin get a hold of the journal. But all he has to do with that is to avoid mentioning it. I suspect that even the sisters wouldn't have known about it until after his death when they went through his private possessions, by which time the sisters wouldn't be sharing that with anyone, particularly given the suspicious circumstances surrounding his death.

Don

Just some thoughts from a long time lurker but a rare poster.

Why did Merlin choose a Katana even though it had no equivalent on SafeHold? She had skills and muscle memory in it's use. As a Jujitsu instructor (third Degree Black Belt) I can explain how to do a technique in a couple of minutes but it will take months of practice to effectively employ it (we are looking hand to hand skills not can you run a computer).

The command crew would have had access to everyones personnel records and history. If you wanted fighters for non powered weapon combat you would pick individuals with a Martial Arts background.

Kody's sword is described as straight Damascus pattern weapon (Spanish style??). Historically martial arts training is done with many of the terms coming from the homeland and history from which they are drawn (the names for Judo & Jujitsu techniques are still in Japanese). How does one explain all of these specialized terms which have no other usage on Safehold. Not difficult to imagine thow hard it would be for some junior sick bay attendant to separate the Martial Skills they needed from the language in which it was learned.

SRYsandan wrote:Just some thoughts from a long time lurker but a rare poster.

Why did Merlin choose a Katana even though it had no equivalent on SafeHold? She had skills and muscle memory in it's use. As a Jujitsu instructor (third Degree Black Belt) I can explain how to do a technique in a couple of minutes but it will take months of practice to effectively employ it (we are looking hand to hand skills not can you run a computer).

The command crew would have had access to everyones personnel records and history. If you wanted fighters for non powered weapon combat you would pick individuals with a Martial Arts background.

Kody's sword is described as straight Damascus pattern weapon (Spanish style??). Historically martial arts training is done with many of the terms coming from the homeland and history from which they are drawn (the names for Judo & Jujitsu techniques are still in Japanese). How does one explain all of these specialized terms which have no other usage on Safehold. Not difficult to imagine thow hard it would be for some junior sick bay attendant to separate the Martial Skills they needed from the language in which it was learned.

To answer your question why Merlin uses a Katana:

OAR - August YOG 890 - Chapter 4 wrote:He intended to make very certain no one but he ever cared for either of those weapons. He also intended to spend quite a lot of time carefully inspecting their edges, honing them on a regular basis, seeing to it that they were properly oiled and guarded against rust, and everything else a blade made of true steel would have required. On the other hand, a seijin was supposed to be a mysterious figure, with more than merely mortal capabilities, and Merlin had no objection to carrying a sword which evoked at least a little awe. That was one reason he'd stayed with the katana, which had no exact counterpart on Safehold. The fact that it was specifically suited to the only style of fencing Nimue Alban had ever studied was another factor, but its exotic appearance should contribute to the image he needed to create.

Joat42

All true but not the point I was addressing.
Muscle memory has a great deal to do with skill with contact weapons. The line between Armed and Unarmed combat is frequently crossed.

Given the number of Adams available there had to be some other than Nimue that had unarmed / contact arms skill and these would be far more potent champions.

SRYsandan wrote:Given the number of Adams available there had to be some other than Nimue that had unarmed / contact arms skill and these would be far more potent champions.

The key to the question is whether the Adams would actually remember that they had the skill, or whether that knowledge was erased along with the rest of their Terran Federation lives. If they don't know that they know, then they'll have to "re-learn" it "from scratch" when they do need it (e.g., during the War Against the Fallen), and at most might be said to "have an aptitude", but with things that they had to "unlearn" to suit the different style(s) being reinvented on Safehold.

Nimue Alban, OTOH, has essentially her full memories of her Terran Federation life, including her knowledge of Kendo. She was in a position to consciously make the choice to take advantage of that knowledge, and did so.

Hi SRYsandan,

Welcome to the forums and enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated forum.

Your point concerning muscle memory is intriguing, that the archangels picked people with known combat capabilities [that fit the prohibitions] to be seijins.

But since all the Adams and Eve's had NEAT's one wonders if the muscle memory could also be programed as Nimue II did, since the original had no interest in hand to hand combat.

From all the textev, the memory wipes were complete and entire; Shan-wei could not restore the personalities of Jeremy Knowles and his wife and friends, only add some knowledge, so I doubt Khody had suppressed memories restored etc.

L

SRYsandan wrote:Joat42

All true but not the point I was addressing.
Muscle memory has a great deal to do with skill with contact weapons. The line between Armed and Unarmed combat is frequently crossed.

Given the number of Adams available there had to be some other than Nimue that had unarmed / contact arms skill and these would be far more potent champions.

Lyonheart

Thanks

Kody's Journal reefers to the fact that his past life was just shadowy memories this does not sound like a very well done memory wipe to me, why.

Because it was not done by Beddard the final product was the work of some less qualified individual working under pressure not to lose the war with the fallen. We must keep some things in mind, the original reeducation was a well though out and executed plan with lots of time to accomplish as well as the guidance a brilliant scientist. The second effort (the Seijins) was a hurried effort by far less competent individuals.

There was no reason to have developed a cybernetic military course for non powered combat specialists. A better model for quick results n this scenario is to look for candidates from among the Adams that already had skills and simply restore them. Much of the text evidence we have about Kody hints at a poorly done job, from the church's standpoint, (not a serious and devout Seijin like the rest) but very effective one none the less.

We have to be careful when we compare the sonly three Seijins we really know anything about.
Merlin a slightly damaged PICA with no high speed data port but still a machine with incredible reflexes and the ability to be shown something once and able to store and repeat perfectly at will.
Nimue II a fully functioning PICA with a fully functioning data port (who uses that advantage to learn martial skills that Merlin never had.
Kody an Adam with newly implanted memories that allow him to become one of Safeholds's greatest warriors.
They are really not comparable Nimue II should be able to completely outclass Merlin as a warrior.

Sorry writen too fast.

FreeTrav wrote:

SRYsandan wrote:Given the number of Adams available there had to be some other than Nimue that had unarmed / contact arms skill and these would be far more potent champions.

The key to the question is whether the Adams would actually remember that they had the skill, or whether that knowledge was erased along with the rest of their Terran Federation lives. If they don't know that they know, then they'll have to "re-learn" it "from scratch" when they do need it (e.g., during the War Against the Fallen), and at most might be said to "have an aptitude", but with things that they had to "unlearn" to suit the different style(s) being reinvented on Safehold.

Maybe. But maybe there's an intermediate stage of being wiped: no idea you have these skills; no idea what these skills are in many cases; but reactions, habits, and skills that remain there to be dusted off and put back to work if only there's an occasion to try it. If that's what the memory wipes accomplished, then the "angels" in need of cannon fodder may have tapped the Adams (and Eves?) with skills they just needed reminding they had, rather than try to load skills through a NEAT into a body that'd never had them to begin with. Maybe that would have worked well enough with far more qualified NEAT operators, with perhaps ideal equipment, but the skills and equipment then available were probably a lot worse than ideal.