Canal Across Charis?

Louis R wrote:We've never, AFAICR, met the current Lord Lock Island, assuming of course that she isn't actually Lady Lock Island, but he's more than likely a pretty junior officer. Important as the Earldom is, the incumbent's political clout is going to be pretty limited compared to that of the late High Admiral.

Sure, but the deference due the heir of such a martyr to Charisian freedom amounts to a lot of passive political clout by itself.

Louis R wrote:If Zebediah is flat - and you're right that that is what the map shows, but it would surprise me to find that it is, and not just not filled it - canals are a non-starter, and railway will be the only option. If it is an option, that is.

Canals first: flat tropical islands are dry tropical islands, as anybody on Antigua or Anguilla can tell you. There has to be at least several hundred feet of relief to squeeze even moderate quantities of water out of the passing winds, and canals need quite a bit of water to operate. A flat island probably wouldn't have it available on demand.

Flat does mean that railway building is easy. OTOH, it likely also means that there's little or no local coal, so all the fuel for a railway would have to be shipped in. That would affect the economics. The flip side is that flat also often means an old, geologically stable and heavily eroded terrane - which are often good places to find petroleum

With the Earldom of Blackwater on the West side of Corisande, it might follow that Zebediah has similar deposits somewhere on the island.

Louis R wrote:Canals first: flat tropical islands are dry tropical islands, as anybody on Antigua or Anguilla can tell you. There has to be at least several hundred feet of relief to squeeze even moderate quantities of water out of the passing winds, and canals need quite a bit of water to operate. A flat island probably wouldn't have it available on demand.

Sea-level canals (such as Suez) don't require a lot of rainfall. Available water only becomes an issue when you add locks to your canal system.

Hi PeterZ,

I don't think there's going to be that much 'dislocation of labor' because all the new industries and thus opportunities are going to suck it back up pretty much where it already is.

The labor needed for the various canals and RR isn't that large for an empire of 72+ million people, even with double tracking everything from the start.

If such manual labor is only worth a mark a day [what Glacierheart miners are paid] even in the tropical empire regions, most will prefer to find something more comfortable and remunerative, NTM when those in Charis are averaging 4-5 times that without taking Silverlode's wealth into account.

Western Charisian ports connected by canals and RR to Tarot with a trans Tarot canal or two besides RR's will certainly impact traditional galleons trading with Siddarmark etc by being far faster, driving them into steam powered replacements, ie more steel ship construction.

There will be many such indirect or unrecognized factors, all drastically changing business and trade after the war, how RFC mentions their effects in passing will be also interesting.

L

PeterZ wrote:Yeah, Lyonheart, you are likely correct.

Such large projects would soak up any displaced labor from increased use of steam power. Build canals as a public works project that actually add economic value to the economy. Transition to railroads as materials become available for no war uses.

Have the canals funded and owned by the House of Ahrmahk. Bid out the management contract on 5 year terms with performance standards. There would also be roads beside those canals. Leave railroads as pure private sector investments. Canals would act as competition for freight routes to keep prices down.

Because canals would make distribution of goods cheaper, the additional gold injected into the Charisian economy would stimulate production and not simply fuel inflation. Oh, and that program would also function as a vehicle to inject additional money into the system at the ground level.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Jeff Engel,

I see canals continuing to be built in the empire and Siddarmark etc because they are low energy, ie low cost large bulk transporters, while the RR move more critical material at a considerably higher energy and financial cost, however dissipated by being distributed throughout all the cargo.

Given all the screw ups and incredible waste with governments trying to subsidize canals and railroads on Terra, I hope the inner circle comes up with much more rational means, aside from RR intendants for approved ex-inquisitors to make sure what is built is up to the required code.

Fortunately OWL and Nahrmahn are available to test the success of the various proposals in the VR long before any decisions are made, something the Earth's governments didn't have; to discover all the problems, plus the Silverlode wealth will help a lot, though I prefer minimum government financing, mainly acting as a major investor rather than the prime contractor.

L

Hi Jeff Engel,

Just as today when container ships from China unload in western American ports to ship across the continent to eastern ports and on to Europe, Tarot's location, especially with the trans-Tarot canal I've previously proposed in other posts and threads going back years [:D] will encourage the growth in trade there.

The safety internal transportation improvements will provide against commerce destroyers [whose threat RFC has already diminished] will be a good thing, but I'll bet any comparison of the CD's damage to all the improvements mentioned will be in the 1% range.

If the current Earl Lock Island is as wise as the last, he will be investing in canals and RR's without any prodding from Cayleb, though I suspect the increased size, rapidity and scope of trade will mitigate any losses from the passage fees.

Regarding Chisholm, I have previously posted many times on the possibilities of connecting roads and canals, NTM RR, to the various rivers across Chisholm.

Indeed I suggested EHM might march or barge across Chisholm in the time it took to collect the convoy ships.

If you look at the map of Chisholm, canal or river barges could take troops from Lake Morgan [a day's march from Maikelberg] to Lake Megan via the canal then up the Sand Bottom River to the Black, where its only ~400 miles to the Crosscreek, then up the Stonewater River before marching ~190 miles to the Mountain Heart River and then barging or rafting down to Cheshyr Bay in less than two month's, even if they have to march rather than barge as much as they could.

I suspect a couple of roads already connect the rivers, and while some parts of Mountain Heart are presently unnavigable, rafting or marching around them is obviously still possible, NTM the army engineers improving them for those that follow.

Sending the first steam powered tugs [or converted Chisholm barges] up those rivers to speed the march along could have reduced the barge time by over 80%, or ~4 5days [ie ~20 days] even at only 8 mph towing so many barges, to around 24-25 days total when the Mountain Heart is fully navigable from Maikelberg, not counting loading and off loading times of course.

Furthermore the various nobles opposing Sharleyan would have difficulty objecting to the ex royal army's march, now the ICA, given its evident popularity without making their potential threat clear to all, a valuable political point when the time comes to deal with them, NTM the demonstration of power by sending the army across the whole continent so quickly might cow some of their supporters.

The above at least provides a powerful argument for cross Chisholm transportation improvements in the future.

Providing the converted steam barge tugs could happen sometime later this year so the new recruits could at least reach Siddarmark far faster than the veterans when their training's complete, or next year depending on the training time the ICA requires for its new tactics etc, a point for another thread.

I don't think the Greentree River dividing Halbrook Hallow is an accident since it means RR construction to connect the Black and Crosscreek rivers might be around a 100 miles for each construction team, so the whole network could be completed within a couple or three month's once all the materials and men are delivered to the 6 construction teams.

So don't be too shocked if that happens.

L

JeffEngel wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Yeah, Lyonheart, you are likely correct.

Such large projects would soak up any displaced labor from increased use of steam power. Build canals as a public works project that actually add economic value to the economy. Transition to railroads as materials become available for no war uses.

Have the canals funded and owned by the House of Ahrmahk. Bid out the management contract on 5 year terms with performance standards. There would also be roads beside those canals. Leave railroads as pure private sector investments. Canals would act as competition for freight routes to keep prices down.

Because canals would make distribution of goods cheaper, the additional gold injected into the Charisian economy would stimulate production and not simply fuel inflation. Oh, and that program would also function as a vehicle to inject additional money into the system at the ground level.

Any canal linking Howell Bay and the Margaret's Land/Charis' west coast would help link Tarot economically and politically more firmly to Charis, and the connections to Siddarmark and Silkiah would be welcome too.

I doubt Desnairian privateers are working the northern and eastern Margaret's Land coasts, but if they are, moving some of that traffic inland would spite them and make convoys shorter. Granted, that would only be relevant if there are Desnairian or other enemy privateers by the time any such canal or railroad were complete.

I do wonder if internal Charisian politics aren't a problem though. Any such canal would reduce the Lock Island passage fees, so Earl Lock Island can't be thrilled about the prospect in his pocket book. On the other hand, he's also about as reasonable as you could possibly hope for that way, and it may help to cut the Earldom in on future canal/railroad income, as a royal grant in case of public utilities, or as a part owner on favored investment terms as a privately held entity.

I also wonder if they are holding off on Charisian canals, or railroads, to cut around sea passages until Chisholm works out its own new canals and/or railroads to knit the interior resources and population into new industries. To the extent that the projects will eat into skilled labor and materials, bringing Chisholm (and Corisande, Zebediah, Tarot and Emerald for that matter) up to a similar standard of industrial might has to be a higher priority politically and economically than polishing up Charis even more. Chisholm's canal and railroad projects are likely to be easier individually: letting them take the lead can work the kinks out first and give them a pride of being ahead of Charis for once. (Well - twice counting the army.) Chisholm may also have more canal experience than Charis, since Charis has had Howell and Margaret Bays for "natural canals" and thus little traditional canal building experience.

Hi PeterZ,

Bringing Tarot, Silkiah and southern Siddarmark into closer trade etc with Charis certainly justifies the west coast port improvements and transport connections, the river to Lake Lyman has been dredged etc since Howsmyn's steel works there are about to go on line, and RFC has reminded us to expect the inner circle to generally make the smart decisions in improving Charisian trade, transportation and industry.

I strongly agree we have no evidence yet the population of Margaret's Land is large enough to justify some of the suggested improvements.

Canalizing the southern rivers will certainly improve internal trade, NTM the whole south coast is only half again the distance from the equator that Tellesburg is, so beside some semi-tropical crops the climate should permit RR's to operate year round.

Given Silverlode, I expect several RR's are quickly undertaken in Chisholm when the rails etc become available.

My previous expectation that the first RR would connect Maikelberg then Port Royal, using Lake Megan to supply the halfway teams might find the RR's connecting the continental rivers could give them some competition in which is completed first.

A ship canal connecting The Anvil to the Chisholm Bight is many years away, and shouldn't be built just for employment, especially when so many new industries and businesses will demand so much labor.

I have proposed connecting Emerald's twin northern lakes to each other and the respective seas by canal numerous times as you know, so I won't be surprised if that happens.

While smaller than Charis or Chisholm, the island nations of the empire are large enough; Emerald's over 900 miles N-S and E-W, with the rest larger still, NTM Tarot being the size of a small continent on Earth, that improving their transportation networks etc will be required.

It may be one reason the Mohryah Lode is so large.

I again also strongly agree that Earl Lock Island isn't in jeopardy of impoverishment anytime soon.

OTOH, I don't see much mass migration across oceans happening or being required by the EoC for some time, as millions of new laborers a year are totally unneeded in my view, while the crown could subsidize them having the companies that need any hire and pay their way seems far wiser.

L

PeterZ wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:

SNIPPED 4 BREVITY


I also wonder if they are holding off on Charisian canals, or railroads, to cut around sea passages until Chisholm works out its own new canals and/or railroads to knit the interior resources and population into new industries. To the extent that the projects will eat into skilled labor and materials, bringing Chisholm (and Corisande, Zebediah, Tarot and Emerald for that matter) up to a similar standard of industrial might has to be a higher priority politically and economically than polishing up Charis even more. Chisholm's canal and railroad projects are likely to be easier individually: letting them take the lead can work the kinks out first and give them a pride of being ahead of Charis for once. (Well - twice counting the army.) Chisholm may also have more canal experience than Charis, since Charis has had Howell and Margaret Bays for "natural canals" and thus little traditional canal building experience.

I don't believe that Chisholm would benefit more from an immediate project to dig canals than a railroad when the materials become available. There is a ~100 mile stretch in Crest Hollow that might work to build a canal connecting The Cauldron to Howell Bay. The rest of Charis Island would benefit from upgrading the major rivers to improve their transport ability. I don't believe Margret's Land is populated enough to warrant that sort of investment yet.

Chisholm, however, is another kettle of fish. Outside the Fence, there isn't place where a canal would truly help expedite transport. Any canals built would not be useful in winter. Better to wait for materials to become available and build railroads. If economic dislocation becomes a serious problem soon, build a canal along the Fence to hire extra bodies.

I would prioritize Chisholm for railroads with Emerald and Zebediah next more for political reasons than economic ones. As for The Lock, commerce between the islands will keep Lock island a wealthy Earldom for quite some time. I also believe that between the ravages of war in the mainland, economic expansion in Siddermark and the EoC, there will be mass migrations by the displaced and unemployed to work those projects. I don't believe there will be enough Imperial citizens to staff all the projects Silverlode's wealth will make possible.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Jeff Engel,

Just as today when container ships from China unload in western American ports to ship across the continent to eastern ports and on to Europe, Tarot's location, especially with the trans-Tarot canal I've previously proposed in other posts and threads going back years [:D] will encourage the growth in trade there.

That trans-Tarot canal - you're thinking of linking Brankyr to Tranjyr? Anyway - I would suspect that a Tarotisian canal for ocean-going vessels would depend for full usefulness on a lot more traffic going across Tranjyr Passage, which would in turn almost demand canals linking Howell Bay to the Tranjyr Passage and/or the Cauldron. In effect, the full utility of one of those Tarotisian canals would depend on the prior construction of one of the ambitious Charisian ones.

Part of the draw of these ambitious canals for ocean-going vessels are ports at the base of deep, deep bays: Tellesberg in Howell Bay, Tranjyr in Thol Bay, Sea Trove at one end of Margaret Bay and Hanth Town still some distance into it, Carmyn in Talisman Gulf. Another tack to take could be building smaller ports near the opening of each bay, and railroad systems or transshipment to link those to the capitals by local transport.

The advantage of canals for ocean-going vessels is that they won't need to transfer cargoes except at ultimate ends of the cargo's journey over water. If transshipment can be facilitated in any way - such as by standardized containers and better, cheaper, more powerful and reliable cranes - mixing up the transportation media for a trip is less of a bother.

The safety internal transportation improvements will provide against commerce destroyers [whose threat RFC has already diminished] will be a good thing, but I'll bet any comparison of the CD's damage to all the improvements mentioned will be in the 1% range.

By the time it matters, plausibly. I do suppose that, given how useful it would have recently been by the time such a project can be finished, the projects may gain some impetus based on a value they won't much have. The horses may already be out of the barn, but it does make you still more satisfied to have a really good lock afterward for a hypothetical next time.

If the current Earl Lock Island is as wise as the last, he will be investing in canals and RR's without any prodding from Cayleb, though I suspect the increased size, rapidity and scope of trade will mitigate any losses from the passage fees.

Regarding Chisholm, I have previously posted many times on the possibilities of connecting roads and canals, NTM RR, to the various rivers across Chisholm.

Indeed I suggested EHM might march or barge across Chisholm in the time it took to collect the convoy ships.

If you look at the map of Chisholm, canal or river barges could take troops from Lake Morgan [a day's march from Maikelberg] to Lake Megan via the canal then up the Sand Bottom River to the Black, where its only ~400 miles to the Crosscreek, then up the Stonewater River before marching ~190 miles to the Mountain Heart River and then barging or rafting down to Cheshyr Bay in less than two month's, even if they have to march rather than barge as much as they could.

There's also marching the men and horses and barging the supplies and maybe artillery alongside as an option. We've used feet and water in parallel about as long as we've had stuff that float and organizations you can call military moving. That's only ended with railroads (which "just" amount to artificial rivers with wheeled "barges" that way) and then automobiles.

I suspect a couple of roads already connect the rivers, and while some parts of Mountain Heart are presently unnavigable, rafting or marching around them is obviously still possible, NTM the army engineers improving them for those that follow.

Right. By now, I suspect Chisholm's got a canal and inter-river road system that represents as much as they had a use for prior to Merlin-derived industry, wherever they could build it practically prior to Merlin-derived transportation assistance (read, mostly, powerful explosives). Not up to mainland standards, by any means, just because Chisholm is less thoroughly populated and like other Out Islands didn't have so many people per unit area so soon as the mainland. But probably a lot better than smaller Emerald or deep-bay-connected Zebediah, Margaret's Land, or Charis. (I have no guesses re Corisande.)

Now, with the new needs and new toys, they simply have to expand and improve it, with whatever mix of new canals, improved canals, dredged rivers, and railroads suit the specific needs and resources.

Sending the first steam powered tugs [or converted Chisholm barges] up those rivers to speed the march along could have reduced the barge time by over 80%, or ~4 5days [ie ~20 days] even at only 8 mph towing so many barges, to around 24-25 days total when the Mountain Heart is fully navigable from Maikelberg, not counting loading and off loading times of course.

Furthermore the various nobles opposing Sharleyan would have difficulty objecting to the ex royal army's march, now the ICA, given its evident popularity without making their potential threat clear to all, a valuable political point when the time comes to deal with them, NTM the demonstration of power by sending the army across the whole continent so quickly might cow some of their supporters.

The above at least provides a powerful argument for cross Chisholm transportation improvements in the future.

Sharley could demonstrate the utility of the canals, improved rivers and railroads for civilian transport with a military march once they are at least nominally online, and get the point across to the nobles as a happy "accident".

"I'm in yer earldom. I'm usin' yer rivers." ("I've got 100,000 men all ready to do heavy breathin' fer me in yer ears!")

Lyonheart,

I doubt there will be serious dislocation, but there will be some. The timing between when workers are displaced and when they find and relocate to suitable work. Not all workers are suitable for all available work after all. I do agree this does not represent a big problem.

I do think there will be a good deal emigration away from Desnair and Dohlar for different reasons. Dohlar will be mechanizing and freeing up its agriculture workforce much more quickly than it can build its industrial base. Dislocation will bite Dohlar hard.

Desnarians will be leaving the mess that will be post jihad Desnair. They will have gold but fewer goods to buy. Hello inflation. Toss in a slow movement towards ag machines and there will be growing unemployment. That assumes South Harchong doesn't invade.

When all is said and done, Siddermark and Charis will be safe havens for the up coming turmoil.

The only islands that are _that_ flat are places like Bikini or Kwajalein. Which Zebediah is not. By 'flat', and, BTW, I actually doubt that Zebediah meets this definition, I mean something that never exceeds 5-600' above MSL, like Prince Edward Island. One reason that I think the terrain is simply not filled in on the map is that I don't know of any islands on Earth as big as Zebediah seems to be that don't exceed 2500', and Safehold is said to be mountainous compared to Earth.

Weird Harold wrote:

Louis R wrote:Canals first: flat tropical islands are dry tropical islands, as anybody on Antigua or Anguilla can tell you. There has to be at least several hundred feet of relief to squeeze even moderate quantities of water out of the passing winds, and canals need quite a bit of water to operate. A flat island probably wouldn't have it available on demand.

Sea-level canals (such as Suez) don't require a lot of rainfall. Available water only becomes an issue when you add locks to your canal system.

Hi Jeff Engel,

My usual between **, okay?


[quote="JeffEngel"][quote="PeterZ"]I don't believe that Chisholm would benefit more from an immediate project to dig canals than a railroad when the materials become available. There is a ~100 mile stretch in Crest Hollow that might work to build a canal connecting The Cauldron to Howell Bay. The rest of Charis Island would benefit from upgrading the major rivers to improve their transport ability. I don't believe Margret's Land is populated enough to warrant that sort of investment yet.[/quote]

If you're counting on refugees from Siddarmark and other places in the mainland for labor, you could count on them for more population in Margaret's Land too - assuming there's reason to settle down there during or after canal/railroad building. And a lot of the canal building simply is river dredging and improvement, pretty much anywhere you can. Margaret's Land canals would serve primarily to close gaps between natural waterways: the Delthak River, the river running across Sea Trove from the mountains to Margaret Bay, and the blue waters of Howell Bay, Margaret Bay, and Tranjyr Passage. That complex would [i]also[/i] do the job of the Howell Bay to the west coast canal. It's much more ambitious than a Tellesberg-Cauldron Canal which would do that job too, but it would do not only that but link Howell Bay to Margaret Bay and northern Margaret's Land to southern Margaret's Land.[quote]


** Turning the Delthak area or region into the Ruhr seems a given, and RR to connect more convenient towns and/or cities to come {Howsmyn as 'Duke of Delthak' seems only just], but making Margaret's Land more firmly Charisian by far faster connections including major transportation links and trade are all to the good.

While Howsmyn could probably fund it all himself, it's too important to Charis and the crown not for them and the CoC to help financially.

Nonetheless, the west coast ports and transport connections nearer Tellesburg should also be carried out, the more ports can always find more trade, and the Tellesburg money interests may prefer to invest closer to home, when they realise that Delthak etc might become serious competition for them.

Besides Silverlode as a revenue source, as Merlin or Nahrmahn has probably already told the inner circle; RR's mean land the government couldn't sell for two dollars an acre can now be sold for four, now that rapid transportation assures it gets to market before it spoils, which ought to encourage internal immigration within Charis and the rest of the empire.**


Chisholm, however, is another kettle of fish. Outside the Fence, there isn't place where a canal would truly help expedite transport. Any canals built would not be useful in winter. Better to wait for materials to become available and build railroads. If economic dislocation becomes a serious problem soon, build a canal along the Fence to hire extra bodies. [/quote]

I'm not clear enough on Chisholm's traffic specifics to rule out short-range canals here and there to improve movement of raw materials and finished products inland. Certainly cold is an issue, but it can be for railroads too with snowfall, southern Chisholm is less vulnerable that way, and seasonal use of either canals or railroads can still be much better than not having them at all.

The Fence is a natural place to consider a canal, but how much traffic is there from points near it on one side to points near it on the other, or for which it would cut out a huge amount of the travel time? Raven's Land isn't much of a market for anyone yet, as a consumer or supplier, and the Western Crown Demesne isn't either. The northern and southern Chisholm coastal areas could helpfully be connected by a canal anywhere across the WCD, from the Fence on down to the southeastern base of the isthmus, and it'd reduce travel time from Charis to the northern Chisholmian coast slightly, but those are probably not sufficient gains to compel that expense and effort - barring local factors that I at least don't know enough to rule in or out.


** Agreed; a canal above the fence has been discussed before by PeterZ and I , but a barge canal or RR is a lot cheaper than a steamship canal until heating, shelter and communications are more easily handled along Chisholm's northern coast.

Unless there are valuable minerals, like copper and tin etc, I don't see that happening for a while, given all the warmer more accessible land further south.**


Chances are, plenty of the connections in Chisholm will be better made with railroads than with canals - certainly eventually, and probably even in the near term. It's not riven with internal waterways like Charis/Margaret's Land for canals to finish linking up. But right now, expertise and materials for canal building are much less tight than for railroads - and refugee labor may bring mainland canal skills but no railroad building skills at all. And the existing canals and rivers can be expanded to create new and better links, in some places, likely with more ease than railroads starting from scratch.

** Actually Chisholm has some rivers in excellent places to speed trade east to west and vice-verse besides north to south, as a previous post of mine alluded to, with only short RR connections for now to reduce transport time from a couple of month's to 4-5 5days until the full RR is completed, an enormous improvement, NTM changing the way Chisholmians think about time, distance and space in their own quasi continent.**


[quote] I would prioritize Chisholm for railroads with Emerald and Zebediah next more for political reasons than economic ones. [/quote]

I wonder about Zebediah - not about the political reasons to support its infrastructure, all granted there, but about the useful communication links and what they need to go over. I think Zebediah is relatively flat - the map and my vague recollections suggest that anyway; as ever, happy to be corrected - which would be handy for building railroads [i]or[/i] canals. It's got a number of reasonably deep bays, which suggest some good work for small canals for local-to-Zebediah traffic. It's not really much of a candidate for canals for ocean-going vessels, unlike the possible Charisian canals, but that does make them easier projects too. On the other hand, if it is as flat as it looks, warm, and dry, shooting railroads wherever you need them to be would be as easy as it is going to get.[quote]

** Agreed, until we know what minerals Zebediah may have, barge canals and RR will be all that's needed, though any new canals {RFC may have been holding out on us ] will have to compete with steamships and so may be uneconomical, while the RR's flourish thanks to their speed.**


As for The Lock, commerce between the islands will keep Lock island a wealthy Earldom for quite some time. I also believe that between the ravages of war in the mainland, economic expansion in Siddermark and the EoC, there will be mass migrations by the displaced and unemployed to work those projects. I don't believe there will be enough Imperial citizens to staff all the projects Silverlode's wealth will make possible.[/quote]

For that matter, there are likely more than a few people in the Raven Lands or the Duchy of Fallos too (relatively speaking - they're both underpopulated) who may be lured off to work on canals, railroads, and Silverlode mines, or on subsidiary projects. Fallosian fisherfolk and lumberjacks may move to feed Silverlode miners and cut the timber for those mines. And Corisande's farms are likely to need far, far fewer people with Out Islander farm industry finally unleashed there.

The key industries are having to develop skilled labor from scratch or nearly so, putting a serious crimp in development, however much money or urgency there is. But certainly there are plenty of sources of labor, materials, and money to shift around to cover the remaining needs and support the development of transportation as well as direct industry.[/quote]


** Yup, I'm not worried about labor lacking long term in the EoC after the war, rather I won't be surprised if there aren't a lot of crown supported A&M colleges spread across the EoC with some wholly CoC supported, with experimental farms and mechanical departments that demonstrate and share the latest approved tech, with farmer cooperatives and low interest crown and CoC loans to encourage their purchase, all advancing Charis beyond her enemies' ability to even envision.

Then what are Cayleb and Sharleyan going to do?

What's going to be the challenge then?

Will that be why they jump into encouraging serfs to flee their servitude?

L


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