Control Missile for shipboard launched missiles

Jonathan_S wrote:

munroburton wrote:
I think the improved performance of BCs at Monica might be to do with them starting at a much lower range - thus not allowing Terekhov's Mk16s to get full usage out of their drives and increasing the interception window for the Monicans.

It may also indicate that even something like the Republic of Monica Navy has personnel better trained than the SLN. Certainly, the Monican Commodore seemed to be considered the best flag officer in that navy - he'd have first choice of tactical personnel.

But the largest shift of all was the Battle of New Tuscany with the capture of a whole bunch of SLN battlecruisers, two of which were sent back to Manticore for ONI to pick apart, with 10th Fleet doing some of the initial analysis. They were able to map the SLN's EW and ECM systems inside-out, forwards and backwards and any other combination of directions you'd care to name. Subsequently, the RMN was able to program their missiles to maximise their effects against SLN hardware and programming.

At Monica, it was the RMN's first time up against those systems in such quality and quantity, with at least some competence and training behind them.

Remember what Rafe Cardones pulled off when he realised Saladin's EW systems were resetting to the same start point in 2nd Yeltsin? Well, this is several magnitudes worse than that. You don't need to imagine what he'd be able to do after a few weeks running around inside the BC playing with its tactical systems because that's what happened in every post-New Tuscany engagement.

Also, while the Indefatigable-class BC's at Monica were a generation older than the SLN's newest (Nevada-class), they'd just gotten a fairly extensive refit.

Supposedly the reason was to disguise the ships' origins. But while the refit was carried out in Monica yards, it was heavily assisted by Technodyne reps provided as part of the MAlign's plot. To make them more effective in that role it's not implausible that those BCs got upgrades to make their point defense much more effective than FF standard - even though they lack the Halo of the newer Nevadas.


After all we know from the attack on Torch that the software used to drive the CMs and PDLCs was so bad that a group of ex-State Sec ship thugs were able to get major improvements just from effectively doing a bit of cut & paste from pre-ceasefire Havenite PD software -- and that's before you touch hardware.


Between that and the points you raised, it certainly seems conceivable that Monica represents a defensive anomaly; compared to what we'd expect to see out of SLN forces in the near-term.

crewdude48 wrote:That is what I said. Keyhole is not a control missile.

You still seemed to have missed the part of the Pearl where David Weber said "The Rolands were designed to fit a very specific tactical and strategic niche. They were also very deliberately designed not to fit other tactical and strategic niches." They very specifically DO NOT WANT a Roland to be able to take on a half squadron of BCs by it self.

Rakhmamort wrote:

crewdude48 wrote:That is what I said. Keyhole is not a control missile.

Which just means FTL receivers can easily be incorporated in the control missile. Which means better accuracy for the control missile's brood compared to your light speed control links.

You still seemed to have missed the part of the Pearl where David Weber said "The Rolands were designed to fit a very specific tactical and strategic niche. They were also very deliberately designed not to fit other tactical and strategic niches." They very specifically DO NOT WANT a Roland to be able to take on a half squadron of BCs by it self.

Even if you equip Rolands with control missiles, they aren't going to be going toe to toe with BC squadrons. Once their magazine is expended, that is it. What the control missile is going to do is to deter the enemy from attacking lone DDs because the DD can destroy some of them and run away instead of the DD simply running away or DD wasting its entire magazine and doing minimal damage before running away.

SharkHunter wrote: What we're talking about isn't a Roland trying to go toe-to-toe with a squadron of BC's we're talking about a Roland plus perhaps an augment from a merchie dumping pods being able to keep those BC's from closing on a convoy long enough for the convoy to escape, which is a defensive no-can-do otherwise.

Rakhmamort wrote:Even if you equip Rolands with control missiles, they aren't going to be going toe to toe with BC squadrons. Once their magazine is expended, that is it. What the control missile is going to do is to deter the enemy from attacking lone DDs because the DD can destroy some of them and run away instead of the DD simply running away or DD wasting its entire magazine and doing minimal damage before running away.

munroburton wrote:The sensible thing for the Roland to do if it is surrounded by squadrons of BCs at extreme range and its magazines are empty is for the Captain to order the crews to abandon ship and then scuttle the vessel. I'd give her a medal when she got back, cos anyone who closes for a beam duel with a DD against multiple BCs is an idiot and might hand the enemy damaged pieces of Manty tech in the process.

SharkHunter wrote:That said, the Roland's vulnerability tends to be when it is forced into a defensive/no retreat fight, such as if it has to defend convoy ships against multiple BC's. Until there's a Keyhole-lite style system up and running, it's range and supply of the Mark 16's that will dictate the outcome of any battle.

That said, by the end of that battle (aka the Roland out of missiles, unable to run, and with enemy BC's still able to close), the DD is going to drop life pods and scuttle. There will be NO remaining RMN tech by the time any MAlign or SLN ships arrive.

munroburton wrote:The way deterrence works requires that the enemy be aware of your potential threat. In which case there are plenty of other threats they're more afraid of - ie, SD(P)s, BC(L)s, CA(L)s.

Control missiles available to those would be as effective a force multiplier, which means the SLN are still going to look for the easiest targets. If 'easiest' happens to be throwing enough BCs at a convoy to saturate its one or two escorts' missile magazines, they'll have to do that.

At the end of the analysis, it's not really a victory for the Solarian League if they lose multiple BCs for every bottom-tier convoy they attack. They'll never nail the really critical convoys moving between Trevor's Star and Bolthole, for instance.

The sensible thing for the Roland to do if it is surrounded by squadrons of BCs at extreme range and its magazines are empty is for the Captain to order the crews to abandon ship and then scuttle the vessel. I'd give her a medal when she got back, cos anyone who closes for a beam duel with a DD against multiple BCs is an idiot and might hand the enemy damaged pieces of Manty tech in the process.