About that "it just appeared" technology

n7axw wrote:Egads!!! Don't you people have any sense of irony or the conplete absurd?

Don

Of course they do. However, this bunch -between snippets- will take the iron out of irony, make an iron out of it and press any comment flat. Then they will fold, spindle and mutilate it, just to get a rise from someone. Then they will take the iron and, using whatever arcane chemistry they need, refine it down to battle steel and defend their position against all comers. That is one of the things that make this such a fun site. And the only thing that will stop them is a new snippet.

Ken

KNick wrote:

n7axw wrote:Egads!!! Don't you people have any sense of irony or the conplete absurd?

Don

Of course they do. However, this bunch -between snippets- will take the iron out of irony, make an iron out of it and press any comment flat. Then they will fold, spindle and mutilate it, just to get a rise from someone. Then they will take the iron and, using whatever arcane chemistry they need, refine it down to battle steel and defend their position against all comers. That is one of the things that make this such a fun site. And the only thing that will stop them is a new snippet.

Ken

Good to see your post Ken. Kind of wondered where you have gotten yourself to. My dad died Dec 20 and I stayed in Billings on my way to the funeral and thought about you...

Your comment was worth a chuckle. Truer words were never spoke. Let's start a discussion on how Howsmyn can begin the production of anti-matter weapons...without electricity!

Don

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:Another discussion on the progression of weapons (sigh)...well, maybe atom bombs.

Don

Well, the pure chemical distillation of uranium is theoretically possible... And the gun-type bomb could be build - if you have enriched uranium - even on the XIX-century level.

Wait. How do you do a chemical separation of U235 from U238 without electricity? Either the gas diffusion or mass spectrometer approaches require large amounts of electricity. That's why the original Manhattan project plants were built in Washington and Tennessee.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Wait. How do you do a chemical separation of U235 from U238 without electricity? Either the gas diffusion or mass spectrometer approaches require large amounts of electricity. That's why the original Manhattan project plants were built in Washington and Tennessee.

As i recall, there was some considreation of pure chemical uranium isotope separation, based on the difference of reaction rate. The chemistry isn't the science i knew really good, but look like it's possible - ineffective, slow, but possible.

P.S. After all, Merlin could cheat and just replace the supposedly-enriched Charisian uranium with some sort of actually-enriched uranium, provided by OWL.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Dilandu wrote:
Wait. How do you do a chemical separation of U235 from U238 without electricity? Either the gas diffusion or mass spectrometer approaches require large amounts of electricity. That's why the original Manhattan project plants were built in Washington and Tennessee.

The same way the Iranians are doing it - gas centrifuges. You inject gas into a spinning chamber and the heavier component finds its way to the walls. Separation is not particularly efficient but after you cascade it through a few thousand stages it can be significant. (Hence the 14000 odd the Iranians are using now). (A typical package has 1024 centrifuges in a cascade with a gas compressor).
This is precision mechanical engineering but technically possible for anyone capable of building a small steam turbine.
Uranium Hexaflouride is chemically nasty (as well as being radioactive) however so the production without teflon or aluminum would be interesting to execute. (Aluminum does not have long lasting energetic isotopes so is a good choice radioactive processing).

[quote="fallsfromtrees"
Wait. How do you do a chemical separation of U235 from U238 without electricity? Either the gas diffusion or mass spectrometer approaches require large amounts of electricity. That's why the original Manhattan project plants were built in Washington and Tennessee.[/quote]


Now why let a little thing like the lack of electricity get in the way.

Dilandu (can't believe I am going to defend him here ... ) did say theoretically possible.

The French developed the CHEMEX process which is based on the oxidation/reduction of the uranium, however they have never taken it any further than pilot stage. The Japanese also have played around with this method but they used an ion-exchange resin method. Both methods are quite costly hence one reason I think the French only took it to pilot stage. I think the Japanese use their method during the 80s / 90s for their fast breeder program but I am not sure ...

The Iranians like the N Koreans have found that just because they can manufacture U235 using gas centrifuges it does not necessarily mean they can manufacture a reliable weapon, even a dirty A-bomb.
The Nazis during WW2 made a number of calculation errors during their stride to make one; with one of those errors being the amount of U235 required.
What they didn't know was that Niels Bohr had already determined their error and was passing this information onto his contacts in the resistance for it to be passed onto the Allies. Which aided the allies in their manufacturing and deployment of the A-bomb.

From memory you require at least a minimum of about 10%+ concentration of U235 for fission power (light reactors use about 15%; while larger ones the concentration is up around the 20-25% mark)
What is need for a bomb - even a rudimentary dirty nuke; which again if memory serves is about 60%+ of U235, even then this is on the low side. Current nuclear weapons use Plutonium-239 along with some U238/235, and a hydride - hence the term H-bomb - it is a lovely uncontrolled fusion firecracker

Back on topic - Dilandu did say theoretically and he is right you could do it but it way beyond Charis' capabilities (not Merlin's - but then he does use Fusion - totally different conversation ... lol).

What would be interesting is seeing the face on the revisiting/reawakened angel to see their OBS inactive and a series of nuclear reactors pumping out electricity and supporting a fledging space industry ....

Thrandir wrote:
Dilandu (can't believe I am going to defend him here ... ) did say theoretically possible.

Thanks.

runsforcelery wrote:I'm sorry if some of my readers find this implausible. I will readily concede that as a storyteller I am prepared to compress processes and to assume that coin tosses normally land in the favor of my heroes (although I trust you'll agree that that hasn't always been the case). What I have not done is to assume the sudden, miraculous, unexplained, "just appeared" emergence of technology or techniques for which I haven't established background before they emerge in the books.

the only tech i can think of that is handwavium is the spar torpedo...but we haven't
seen that yet we only heard about it in a snippet. You have done a very good job
in establishing the ground work for the tech that has been introduced. every
once in a while i start wondering "hey how are the measuring to that accuracy repeatably and reliably" then a couple of chapters/books later you have a nice explanation.

the chemistry is one area i am lacking in knowledge (personally) so you could get away with handwavium there and i wouldn't know. just curious but with chemistry moving along would photography be considered EVIL? in general some chemical
reactions could be considered magic without underlying knowledge. even more so
then something mechanical because you can SEE how a mechanical action is done.

ie in a dark room i pour water (i know its not) over a piece of paper and a picture appears. magic.


laz