The Inquisition Reformed. (SPOILER/SPECULATION)

Dilandu wrote:

2. With the Recon Skiff and the Assault Shuttle (as an element of persuasion) do a tour to the Capitals insisting on the attendance of the Secular leadership and Church Authorities, Show the Schuler speech and explain/demonstrate the Verifier. Perhaps have a large scale apparition over the city showing the process to bring it to the public.

It would end up as inprecedent civilization-scale disaster. The probability of Safeholdian Dark Age in case of such revelations is uncomfortably high. It would not be just the revelation - it would be the shocking collapse of millenia-scale culture and religion.

I agree with Dilandu that number 2 is a bad idea. However on the dark age prediction, not so much. Charis and the EOC are well past the stage for that sort of thing and the rest of Safehold will have their example.

The reason I disagree with no. 2 is that it is coercive and I don't think in keeping with the spirit of tha books.

Dlon

Charis and the EOC are well past the stage for that sort of thing and the rest of Safehold will have their example.

They would face internal crysis themselves. A majority of Charisians, loyal to the crown and Church of Charis would be shocked by the sudden revelation; a lot of them would think "Oh no! Our king and archibishop are TRUE heretics, and Shan-Wei servants! Clyntahn was right after all!!!" Charis MAY survive that, but only by the repressions against a awful large percent of its own population.

That's the main reason why i so worried about the revelation. Currently, even the Charisian society are completely unprepaired for that. Frankly, the preliminary work would probably take a lot of years - probably even a few centuries - before actual revelation. Especially considering the ongoing policy "we would not replace one lie with another lie"; i'm afraid eventually this politics would went to the "we were forced to send millions of charisians to the concenctration camps, because something gone wrong with our truth, and they can not comprehend with it".

Actually, the best solution would be the returned Archangels, persuaded by Merlin and Co to change the doctrine. It would probably, actually prolong the revelation, but at least there would be a lot less blood here.

Dilandu wrote:

Charis and the EOC are well past the stage for that sort of thing and the rest of Safehold will have their example.

They would face internal crysis themselves. A majority of Charisians, loyal to the crown and Church of Charis would be shocked by the sudden revelation; a lot of them would think "Oh no! Our king and archibishop are TRUE heretics, and Shan-Wei servants! Clyntahn was right after all!!!" Charis MAY survive that, but only by the repressions against a awful large percent of its own population.

That's the main reason why i so worried about the revelation. Currently, even the Charisian society are completely unprepaired for that. Frankly, the preliminary work would probably take a lot of years - probably even a few centuries - before actual revelation. Especially considering the ongoing policy "we would not replace one lie with another lie"; i'm afraid eventually this politics would went to the "we were forced to send millions of charisians to the concenctration camps, because something gone wrong with our truth, and they can not comprehend with it".

Actually, the best solution would be the returned Archangels, persuaded by Merlin and Co to change the doctrine. It would probably, actually prolong the revelation, but at least there would be a lot less blood here.

Yes, they would be shocked. But I don't believe that they will be shocked badly enough to commit social hari-kari. The COC has been preparing them be emphasizing that everybody has to decide for themselves what to believe.

Don

n7axw wrote:
Yes, they would be shocked. But I don't believe that they will be shocked badly enough to commit social hari-kari. The COC has been preparing them be emphasizing that everybody has to decide for themselves what to believe.

Don

Not nearly enough. All that CoCh currently done, is small disagreements INSIDE the doctrine. Any attempt to break the doctrine at all currently would be next thing that the planetary-scale disaster. Peoples in general simply not ready to believe in something completely different; they saw too few doctrinal inconsistences. Let's not forget - the CoGA doctrine is a near-perfectly build thing, that actually gave working and pretty plausible explanation to everything, and have wery little conflicts with real world for the Safeholdian position. So, the vast majority of charisaian currently would determine the truth as "Shan-Wei intolerable lie"; or simply would be completely psyhologically crashed. The onslaught that would came after that... even the Clyntahn would be horrifed.

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Yes, they would be shocked. But I don't believe that they will be shocked badly enough to commit social hari-kari. The COC has been preparing them be emphasizing that everybody has to decide for themselves what to believe.

Don

Not nearly enough. All that CoCh currently done, is small disagreements INSIDE the doctrine. Any attempt to break the doctrine at all currently would be next thing that the planetary-scale disaster. Peoples in general simply not ready to believe in something completely different; they saw too few doctrinal inconsistences. Let's not forget - the CoGA doctrine is a near-perfectly build thing, that actually gave working and pretty plausible explanation to everything, and have wery little conflicts with real world for the Safeholdian position. So, the vast majority of charisaian currently would determine the truth as "Shan-Wei intolerable lie"; or simply would be completely psyhologically crashed. The onslaught that would came after that... even the Clyntahn would be horrifed.

I would presume that there will be some of that. It will be interesting to see how the story plays out.

Don

n7axw wrote:
I would presume that there will be some of that. It will be interesting to see how the story plays out.

Don

Well, i think that they would eventually use the Archangels to overcame the situation and made possible major reevaluation of the doctrine. If someone above (i.e. Archangels) would say that it's okay to think about doctrine and even divert out of her, the process of eventual revelation could be much less bloody. This is the situation, when some additional lie is necessary as the "lubricant" for truth.

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:
I would presume that there will be some of that. It will be interesting to see how the story plays out.

Don

Well, i think that they would eventually use the Archangels to overcame the situation and made possible major reevaluation of the doctrine. If someone above (i.e. Archangels) would say that it's okay to think about doctrine and even divert out of her, the process of eventual revelation could be much less bloody. This is the situation, when some additional lie is necessary as the "lubricant" for truth.

I don't think that a lie ever truly lubricates the truth, Dilandu. There might be times when the lie can postpone the truth's telling, but there are limits to even that.

I don't think at this point the "Archangels" are of any constructive use. They certainly were not known for their wise, tolerant and truthful ways when they were actually alive. Not a single one of them would deserve a positive character reference. To think that in any sort of reincarnation, they would be any different is in my opinion sheer fantasy.

To say that I don't expect Charis to commit social hari-kari is not to say that I expect a soft landing at the time of the reveal. Nope, the ride will be bumpy. How bumpy we will have to wait and see.

Don

I don't think that a lie ever truly lubricates the truth, Dilandu. There might be times when the lie can postpone the truth's telling, but there are limits to even that.

Ok, may i use a model? Let's suppose that the USA goverment during the Vietnam War suddenly told to the peoples: "You knew, this is all for nothing and always were. We started this war because we didn't want to follow Jeneva convention of 1954, and we placed our puppet goverment in South Vietnam just because some idiots in CIA assumed that it would be bad for us to let Vietnam be red. So, against the will of Vietnamese peoples we violated the international agreement, forced them to deal with unpopular southern govermen, killed, maimed and wounded an awfull lot of peoples - for nothing, my dear americans, for nothing - and actually we made things only worse for Vietnam. Oh, and all americans that were killed and injured during the wars suffered for nothing, also, because we are losing and the Vietnam eventually became red, and we cannot do anything to stop ot either - so, actually, this war was useless. Good day."

What would be the reaction of american peoples in, let's assume, 1969, if they were told the complete truth?

Dilandu wrote:
Actually, the best solution would be the returned Archangels, persuaded by Merlin and Co to change the doctrine. It would probably, actually prolong the revelation, but at least there would be a lot less blood here.

Which can guarantee that it won't happen. RFC has said there is going to be a sequel series set like 10-20 years from now with the return. And its going to make this current war look like a picnic.


I have personally figured Stephan Maik is going to end up the Grand Inquisitor when the dust settles. Paityr is the only other likeable Inquisitor, and the entire Wylsynn clan (or whats left of them) has burnt their bridges, there is no road back to the Temple for them. Paityr at least is a member of the Church of Charis to his toe nails at least, and I can't see his siblings being much different. I mean I guess its hypothetically possible they are still loyal to the Temple, just as its also hypothetically possible one of them turns into a deranged ax murderer. Regardless, there is not going to be some sort of reconciliation between to two churches.

Dilandu wrote:Not nearly enough. All that CoCh currently done, is small disagreements INSIDE the doctrine. Any attempt to break the doctrine at all currently would be next thing that the planetary-scale disaster. Peoples in general simply not ready to believe in something completely different; they saw too few doctrinal inconsistences. Let's not forget - the CoGA doctrine is a near-perfectly build thing, that actually gave working and pretty plausible explanation to everything, and have wery little conflicts with real world for the Safeholdian position. So, the vast majority of charisaian currently would determine the truth as "Shan-Wei intolerable lie"; or simply would be completely psyhologically crashed. The onslaught that would came after that... even the Clyntahn would be horrifed.

Hi,

You're certainly right. Note, though, that the second arc will take place over a decade from now. Right now, there are six/seven-years-old children in the EoC who are growing up in atmosphere of progress, independent thought and pushing the Proscriptions to their limits. In 20 years, those people will be adult and quite used to the world of free thought and new ideas. I'd say they'd weather the news quite fine, or at least relatively fine. Seeing how young people form the bulk of the army ( So I think...), Cayleb and Sharleyan probably won't suffer from military putsch.

As to the other countries, though... I don't really see the reason why they would believe anything Charis says. On the other hand, if the Revelation starts a civil war in Charis, they might feel inclined to cut themselves a piece of Empire and EoC might find itself between the anvil of rebels and hammer of invading armies.