HQ Snippet #21 3-27-15

Don,

I wanted to say Duchairn recognizes her can't hide the truth of Charis' innocence in violating the prosscriptions should Charis defeat the jihadi forces. Charis was innocent and the hierarchy new it.

PeterZ wrote:Don,

I wanted to say Duchairn recognizes her can't hide the truth of Charis' innocence in violating the prosscriptions should Charis defeat the jihadi forces. Charis was innocent and the hierarchy new it.

Ok, that statement is both fair and factual. None of the proscriptions had actually been broken.

Muddying the waters a bit, however, is that some of the more conservative inquisitors regarded the pace at which Charis was embracing change as being tantamount to breaking the proscriptions themselves. Apparently the plant that Clyntahn put on Denys as his secretary followed that line of thought.

But that being said, it remains true that the proscriptions weren't being broken.

Don

n7axw wrote:Ok, that statement is both fair and factual. None of the proscriptions had actually been broken.

Muddying the waters a bit, however, is that some of the more conservative inquisitors regarded the pace at which Charis was embracing change as being tantamount to breaking the proscriptions themselves. Apparently the plant that Clyntahn put on Denys as his secretary followed that line of thought.

But that being said, it remains true that the proscriptions weren't being broken.

Don

Fair point, Don. I would assert that if those Inquisitors had issues with the speed with which Charis was innovating, they should have acted as the CoGA in cautioning Charis. Instead the Vicars acted as the Knights of the Temple Lands to remonstrate with Charis militarily. They acted to address Charisian economic and foreign policy in their secular capacity.

This further supports the conclusion that the hierarchy knew they did not have a doctrinal leg to stand on in acting against Charis.

n7axw wrote:

Ok, that statement is both fair and factual. None of the proscriptions had actually been broken.

Muddying the waters a bit, however, is that some of the more conservative inquisitors regarded the pace at which Charis was embracing change as being tantamount to breaking the proscriptions themselves. Apparently the plant that Clyntahn put on Denys as his secretary followed that line of thought.

But that being said, it remains true that the proscriptions weren't being broken.

Don

PeterZ replied:

Fair point, Don. I would assert that if those Inquisitors had issues with the speed with which Charis was innovating, they should have acted as the CoGA in cautioning Charis. Instead the Vicars acted as the Knights of the Temple Lands to remonstrate with Charis militarily. They acted to address Charisian economic and foreign policy in their secular capacity.

This further supports the conclusion that the hierarchy knew they did not have a doctrinal leg to stand on in acting against Charis.

It occurs to me that there is one other factor that hasn't been touched: Nynian's collection of evidence against the (remaining) CoGA vicarate. If that information is published, and believed, then it will mean the end of many members of the vicarate. Cayleb said that they did not want to release the information while in a weak position - they aren't any more. So what happens if all the information Nynian acquired about the Church elite in Desnair and Dohlar is now exposed? And the border states and Silkia?

How would the CoGA respond to that, on top of a military defeat? It seems to me that if believed, it could flush at least half the vicarate, and I wonder how the Alliance would react to that. Would the CoGA chose new Vicars themselves, with the implication that things would remain the same - and that they would be vulnerable to more embarrassment as the people they chose in turn were exposed? Or would they revert to letting the countries of origin select their new Vicars?

The alternative would be for the vicarate to brand it all as lies, and so yet again expose the lies and hypocrisy that caused the Jihad in the first place. The group-of-3 might not be able to push a truce through, were Nynian's information published.

Yet more troubles for the CoGA ahead.

-- Bob G

What if Merlin and Nynian open Khody's tomb and find.....a deacivated PICA? Just speculating.

SPOILER ALERT





I was relooking at this snippet and the last one, then remembering all the materials sent to Charis with Adorai. I can't see Aivah waiting much longer. She wouldn't have sent her only copy of this evidence to Charis. Why would she be 'so' trusting? I think the time is very near for those documents being broadly published everywhere, including Loyalist areas. To leave her evidence just sitting has to gall her a bit too! Maybe they'll see the journal, Merlin speed read and translate it, then publish it also.

schoeffelk wrote:SPOILER ALERT





I was relooking at this snippet and the last one, then remembering all the materials sent to Charis with Adorai. I can't see Aivah waiting much longer. She wouldn't have sent her only copy of this evidence to Charis. Why would she be 'so' trusting? I think the time is very near for those documents being broadly published everywhere, including Loyalist areas. To leave her evidence just sitting has to gall her a bit too! Maybe they'll see the journal, Merlin speed read and translate it, then publish it also.

The problem with Nynian's evidence at this point is that it is old hat when the G-4 keeps doing things just as bad and even worse to feed alliance propaganda. And the best propaganda is almost always the fresh stuff.

At this point, I think that the best use for it is to provide guidance for prosecutors in a court of law if the culprits incriminated by it are still around.

Or maybe publicizing portions of it after the G-4 is overthrown could serve to challenge the TLs by throwing the question in their faces "This is what the vicarate has been up to all along. Do you really want to be supporting it?"

As for the journal, the people to be making that decision are the SSK. One wouldn't want to betray their trust by going against their wishes.

Don

schoeffelk wrote:SPOILER ALERT
I was relooking at this snippet and the last one, then remembering all the materials sent to Charis with Adorai. I can't see Aivah waiting much longer. She wouldn't have sent her only copy of this evidence to Charis. Why would she be 'so' trusting? I think the time is very near for those documents being broadly published everywhere, including Loyalist areas. To leave her evidence just sitting has to gall her a bit too! Maybe they'll see the journal, Merlin speed read and translate it, then publish it also.

When Cayleb and Merlin arrived in Siddar City, Aivah reminded Cayleb about the incriminating information on the vicarate that she'd sent to Charis, and reminded our youthful monarch that such information is only valuable if it is used! So I've been waiting for some broadsheets to appear on the walls of the sees represented by vicars with severe... moral deficiencies, shall we say?

With the allies now winning the war, destroying the cohesion of the CoGA's leadership would be even more valuable than before. Once word got out to the soldiers of the sort of human refuse who claim to represent them before God and the archangels, the fervor for Mother Church and the jihad might take a fairly serious beating.

In the meantime, Aivah's impatience seems to be shown by the number of vicar's bodies floating face down in the Zion river! (9 at last count?)

Hi Don,

Kudos for your several great posts here.

Now we know there just isn't Nynian's 20 years of the circle's documentation of the Go4's corruption, but the SSK's near thousand year documentation of the CoGA failing God, however well it kept that knowledge from the public.

Those revelation details are as 'new' to the alliance as Nynian's original data dump was to Maikel, Cayleb and the inner circle etc.

We've discussed before how soon Nynian's data from the circle will go up on Owl's broadsheets, probably as soon as the alliance victories are recognised by their enemies to be real victories, shifting the direction of the war, not accidental or temporary.

Destroying Wyrshym and Kaitswyrth may occur before before the denouement, though I doubt it; if they do they only reinforce the implication that the alliance is apparently rolling with God's approval to punish the corrupt CoGA.

Given how Maikel reminded Klairmant in LaMA that even the best of the archangels evidently betrayed God, despite their obviously far more intimate interaction with him, its not surprising that the far more ignorant mortal men running the CoGA have also obviously failed him as well, and thus must be replaced as soon as possible.

Since that's all in the Holy Writ as PeterZ wants, the great shift in the CoGA membership's full awareness of the CoGA's guilt can begin almost immediately.

Again as many have pointed out, the Go4 aren't an aberration in the CoGA's history, only a symptom of its centuries long corruption.

It will take generations to end the CoGA, as I've always said, but removing its claims to infallibility especially since the 'war of the fallen' is a major step now in destroying it as Merlin and the inner circle have evidently sworn to do.

The SSK's documentation going back to the beginning can now also go up on the broadsides showing how quickly the CoGA began failing God, moving at least the thinking part of the CoGA members to a more balanced appreciation of just how deep their drowning hole is.

It's been common knowledge that the CoGA has been corrupt for 200+ years, discovering its been corrupt from the beginning is going to get some members thinking about more than a few cosmetic reforms.

Maikel also suggested the process the CoC has started may indeed be part of God's will to correct the failure of the CoGA, which initially surprised Gairlyng but as he quickly pointed out claiming to tell God who he is and limit what he chooses to do is probably the greatest blasphemy or sin.

I suspect such arguments will find plenty of 'good ground' on the continents remaining CoGA nations among those with 'eyes to see and ears to hear', however much the willfully ignorant choose to be, closing their eyes to the obvious.

They may not be able to immediately act or respond as freely as they or we might like, but their quiet influence will eventually bear fruit in more moderation and understanding over time.

Since the remaining continental or national powers will prefer a subservient CoGA, the development of national churches seems a given, however many that call for a new or revitalized supra-national CoGA even more right wing [granting even more power to the inquisition], and whatever results is only going to be more corrupt and secretly directed by one of those remaining national powers, probably northern Harchong.

However much PeterZ thinks the alliance must negotiate if Duchairn promises to try to fix things, we have no textev at all that Duchairn even intends to offer any terms at all; his whole effort that we've read being about 'getting' Clyntahn, which is a great deal shy of mending the church, healing the schism, or reparations for the Jihad etc.

L

n7axw wrote:

schoeffelk wrote:SPOILER ALERT





I was relooking at this snippet and the last one, then remembering all the materials sent to Charis with Adorai. I can't see Aivah waiting much longer. She wouldn't have sent her only copy of this evidence to Charis. Why would she be 'so' trusting? I think the time is very near for those documents being broadly published everywhere, including Loyalist areas. To leave her evidence just sitting has to gall her a bit too! Maybe they'll see the journal, Merlin speed read and translate it, then publish it also.

The problem with Nynian's evidence at this point is that it is old hat when the G-4 keeps doing things just as bad and even worse to feed alliance propaganda. And the best propaganda is almost always the fresh stuff.

At this point, I think that the best use for it is to provide guidance for prosecutors in a court of law if the culprits incriminated by it are still around.

Or maybe publicizing portions of it after the G-4 is overthrown could serve to challenge the TLs by throwing the question in their faces "This is what the vicarate has been up to all along. Do you really want to be supporting it?"

As for the journal, the people to be making that decision are the SSK. One wouldn't want to betray their trust by going against their wishes.

Don

Hi Philip Stanley,

Thanks very much for the update.

Given the snippets have averaged around 20% of the book, we have another 45-46 pages, which with blank gaps for chapters and month's means we've probably got another 11 or so snippets, which then averages one almost every 15 days until September 8th.

L

Philip Stanley wrote:Just out of idle curiosity I've spliced together the 21 sequential snippets, put them in an appropriate typeface, and adjusted my margins so that the text block size just about the actual size used in the books. It looks like we're already about 75 pages into HFQ.

Interesting, Huh!

Philip Stanley