One way to kill the grand inquisitor and rayno now

It isn't just raw materials. It's advanced alloys, chemicals, and energy. A machine shop here in Viborg would have a better chance of building a caddy. And it isn't that our local machinists are dummies. It's that the resources needed for the task at hand haven't been developed yet.

In fact in our own timeline, our resources are still inadequate for building a deep space vehicle. We're still working on how to get to Mars, to say nothing of the galaxy.

Don

n7axw wrote:It isn't just raw materials. It's advanced alloys, chemicals, and energy. A machine shop here in Viborg would have a better chance of building a caddy. And it isn't that our local machinists are dummies. It's that the resources needed for the task at hand haven't been developed yet.

In fact in our own timeline, our resources are still inadequate for building a deep space vehicle. We're still working on how to get to Mars, to say nothing of the galaxy.

Don

Well it is almost certainly doable. Pretty sure nothing needs to be invented. OWL just needs to build the tools to build the tools etc. Including mining bots. The question would be about the timescale involved.

Randomiser wrote:
Well it is almost certainly doable. Pretty sure nothing needs to be invented. OWL just needs to build the tools to build the tools etc. Including mining bots. The question would be about the timescale involved.

One thing that sort of bugs me is that with a long term outlook Owl's shop could almost certainly build something to fight the OBS with, and Merlin seems to not even be trying.
He may not have the materials on hand, but with enough patience they can be obtained, or at least the raw materials can. I'm guessing that the stuff in short supply is something like rare-earths needed for molycircs or advanced alloys. It may not be obtainable quickly, but it is obtainable. Missiles or ground based weapons shouldnt be beyond reach if you are patient enough to spend years assembling the wherewithal.

n7axw wrote:It isn't just raw materials. It's advanced alloys, chemicals, and energy. A machine shop here in Viborg would have a better chance of building a caddy. And it isn't that our local machinists are dummies. It's that the resources needed for the task at hand haven't been developed yet.

In fact in our own timeline, our resources are still inadequate for building a deep space vehicle. We're still working on how to get to Mars, to say nothing of the galaxy.

Don

Actually we could have built a manned mission to Mars in the late 1970's but Nixon pulled the plug on it. Skylab could easily have been a model for the accommodation unit - it just needed another third stage module to get it under way. The skill set developed for a moon landing is directly comparable to a Mars landing, just twice the gravity to overcome (and a thin atmosphere for aerodynamic braking i.e. less fuel to get down, or into orbit).
The US is only now replicating the lift capacity it had with the Saturn V, and getting out of earth orbit is half the battle.
The Space shuttle wasted 30 years - wrong solution, unless you want to get stuff out of orbit without anyone seeing what it was.
The X-20, X-24 & X-38 were better models for servicing manned orbital infrastructure, and use unmanned launchers to get the big stuff up. The Shuttle was like using a Semi-trailer to do the grocery shopping, just because you had a semi.
If Elon Musk can nail landing his booster, he is 90% of the way to viable building a viable Mars return vehicle.

Actually, probably the easiest, and least bloody (if one doesn't mind a single city of "collateral damage" would have been to use the skimmers spacial abilities to find and de-orbit a rock onto Zion. A little underground "prep" work in having the SNARC's putting up posters predicting the "cleansing" of the Church hierarchy by the same means used in the "Wars against the Fallen"; coupled with that happening, could have easily resulted in massive changes in the Church's direction; especially if some particular doctrinal points were declared to be in error. After all, if "God and the Archangels" did it *once*, there's no reason they couldn't have done it again; and, after all, the "fallen" were originally Archangels too; so the concept of men, and, for that matter, even angels and archangels falling into error, corruption, and/or evil isn't unknown.

OrlandoNative wrote:Actually, probably the easiest, and least bloody (if one doesn't mind a single city of "collateral damage" would have been to use the skimmers spacial abilities to find and de-orbit a rock onto Zion. A little underground "prep" work in having the SNARC's putting up posters predicting the "cleansing" of the Church hierarchy by the same means used in the "Wars against the Fallen"; coupled with that happening, could have easily resulted in massive changes in the Church's direction; especially if some particular doctrinal points were declared to be in error. After all, if "God and the Archangels" did it *once*, there's no reason they couldn't have done it again; and, after all, the "fallen" were originally Archangels too; so the concept of men, and, for that matter, even angels and archangels falling into error, corruption, and/or evil isn't unknown.

Perhaps that could be done except that Merlin and Nimue have already rejected the idea because of all the innocents who would die because of such an act.

Don

Hi Don,

You're right, its certainly not going to happen.

While it indeed might well be possible to snag such a passing rock with a recon skimmer, the odds of finding one when it was possible [when the skimmer wouldn't appear to threaten the OBS and be destroyed] are remote, Merlin and the inner circle would never condone such an atrocity in the first place, so it wouldn't happen.

It would definitely put Merlin and the inner circle on the same bottom moral expedient level as Clyntahn, so it wouldn't happen.

Given how Merlin agonized over killing just the semaphore station crews, around 50 or so, killing a million or 2 innocents would make him suicidal, so it wouldn't happen.

Which is why I tell you three times it wouldn't happen.

L

n7axw wrote:

OrlandoNative wrote:Actually, probably the easiest, and least bloody (if one doesn't mind a single city of "collateral damage" would have been to use the skimmers spacial abilities to find and de-orbit a rock onto Zion. A little underground "prep" work in having the SNARC's putting up posters predicting the "cleansing" of the Church hierarchy by the same means used in the "Wars against the Fallen"; coupled with that happening, could have easily resulted in massive changes in the Church's direction; especially if some particular doctrinal points were declared to be in error. After all, if "God and the Archangels" did it *once*, there's no reason they couldn't have done it again; and, after all, the "fallen" were originally Archangels too; so the concept of men, and, for that matter, even angels and archangels falling into error, corruption, and/or evil isn't unknown.

Perhaps that could be done except that Merlin and Nimue have already rejected the idea because of all the innocents who would die because of such an act.

Don

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

You're right, its certainly not going to happen.

While it indeed might well be possible to snag such a passing rock with a recon skimmer, the odds of finding one when it was possible [when the skimmer wouldn't appear to threaten the OBS and destroyed] are remote, Merlin and the inner circle would never condone such an atrocity in the first place, so it wouldn't happen.

It would definitely put Merlin and the inner circle on the same bottom moral expedient level as Clyntahn, so it wouldn't happen.

Given how Merlin agonized over killing just the semaphore station crews, around 50 or so, killing a million or 2 innocents would make him suicidal, so it wouldn't happen.

Which is why I tell you three times it wouldn't happen.

L

n7axw wrote:

OrlandoNative wrote:Actually, probably the easiest, and least bloody (if one doesn't mind a single city of "collateral damage" would have been to use the skimmers spacial abilities to find and de-orbit a rock onto Zion. A little underground "prep" work in having the SNARC's putting up posters predicting the "cleansing" of the Church hierarchy by the same means used in the "Wars against the Fallen"; coupled with that happening, could have easily resulted in massive changes in the Church's direction; especially if some particular doctrinal points were declared to be in error. After all, if "God and the Archangels" did it *once*, there's no reason they couldn't have done it again; and, after all, the "fallen" were originally Archangels too; so the concept of men, and, for that matter, even angels and archangels falling into error, corruption, and/or evil isn't unknown.

Perhaps that could be done except that Merlin and Nimue have already rejected the idea because of all the innocents who would die because of such an act.

Don

And for a practical reason, destroying the Temple in such a fashion has a good chance of destroying the controls for the OBs, which means you may well NEVER be able to move beyond steam, because you have no way of disarming the OBS. In this case the moral thing to not do is also the smart thing to not do.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

You're right, its certainly not going to happen.

While it indeed might well be possible to snag such a passing rock with a recon skimmer, the odds of finding one when it was possible [when the skimmer wouldn't appear to threaten the OBS and destroyed] are remote, Merlin and the inner circle would never condone such an atrocity in the first place, so it wouldn't happen.

It would definitely put Merlin and the inner circle on the same bottom moral expedient level as Clyntahn, so it wouldn't happen.

Given how Merlin agonized over killing just the semaphore station crews, around 50 or so, killing a million or 2 innocents would make him suicidal, so it wouldn't happen.

Which is why I tell you three times it wouldn't happen.

L

Hi Lyonheart,

That's ok. My wife repeats things at least three times because she thinks I'm a bit slow...

Don

If you'd like a looooong explanation of why Merlin doesn't just nuke the Temple or get the OBS to do it for him, here's what RFC has to say about it: http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/page:3/series:6