Penicillin?

I am not sure but I think that Charis might be capable of making penicillin or at least discovering it and it would most likely be pretty useful for field medicine. Plus Safehold has Fleming moss and that has antibiotic properties so they might be able to make some antibiotics by refining Fleming moss as soon as someone comes up with the idea.

captinjoehenry wrote:I am not sure but I think that Charis might be capable of making penicillin or at least discovering it and it would most likely be pretty useful for field medicine. Plus Safehold has Fleming moss and that has antibiotic properties so they might be able to make some antibiotics by refining Fleming moss as soon as someone comes up with the idea.

Wouldn't they first have to come up with germs. I don't know if Pasqual (sp?) goes that far.

They already have antibiotics. RFC posted this some time back:

runsforcelery wrote:Guys, they already have pretty decent anesthetics, and Fleming moss and a few other native plants provide a relatively effective base of antibiotics. They've also been able to see germs for a long time, and, thanks to the Writ, they know exactly what they are: demons loosed upon fallen humanity as a consequence of Shan-wei's Rebellion and the War Against the Fallen. They also know how to defend against them by using the dispensations granted by the Archangel Pasquale.

Basically, the Writ advises remedies and cures that actually work, and gives religious "explanations" as to why, thus reinforcing the wisdom of following the proscriptions against innovation and experimentation.

I wonder why they don't have antibiotic resistance issues after 800 years (or whatever it is in Earth years).

But then, I wonder why they have infectious diseases. One would think they wouldn't have been introduced - some might have evolved, but most come from domestic animal diseases IIRC, so if those were brought 'clean' not much should have happened.

cralkhi wrote:I wonder why they don't have antibiotic resistance issues after 800 years (or whatever it is in Earth years).

But then, I wonder why they have infectious diseases. One would think they wouldn't have been introduced - some might have evolved, but most come from domestic animal diseases IIRC, so if those were brought 'clean' not much should have happened.

Possibly because we need bacteria and viruses to survive. The human gut as a wild variety of bacteria in residence that are becoming clear are vital to your digestion and mental health. (Fecal transplants have been shown to change body weight (skinny to fat and vice versa) and fix depression as a side effects of treatments for inflammatory diseases). If you have bacteria and they mutate in a new environment then all bets are off. And that isn't even allowing for what the native bacteria might be like.

They have infectious disease because a pre-industrial world without disease is to difficult to imagine. Without our current diseases a major cause of death is gone, which would result in the death to birth ratio being wildly skewed.

The rationalization that evolution has done this doesn't work. We have had millions(or billions, or if you just count our species at least 100,000 years) of years to evolve the current selection of viruses and bacteria we have now. Evolving a comparable set in 750 years(see Nimue wake up scene) just isn't probable.

A possible rationalization, that I haven't poked holes in yet(I but I haven't tried hard), is that only the truly deadly diseases were eradicated(small pox(already did), HIV, bubonic plague, ect) leaving less deadly diseases such as syphilis, gonorrhea, Common cold(is deadly but not generally to whole populations), strep throat(more dangerous form scarlet fever), malaria(possibly, no mosquitos though), in non-symptomatic carriers. This rationalization does have the benefit of giving a reason for common disease existing but plagues not and plagues would happen even with good hygiene if you don't have the proper medical knowledge(mass produced vaccinations being the most important).
In summary, the plagues were wiped out, but the laziness of the Terran Federation left the lesser diseases repressed but still in the population.


Note: What was the explanation for disease before the rebellion. After all, the first generation Safeholdians had no protection so they should have gotten sick and if they got sick and died in say childhood. Then their imperfection(distance from god's flame) doesn't explain why when others are not sick. Also, telling one generation your sick because of this and then telling the children your sick for an entirely different reason might cause some trouble with the older generation.

Highjohn wrote:They have infectious disease because a pre-industrial world without disease is to difficult to imagine. Without our current diseases a major cause of death is gone, which would result in the death to birth ratio being wildly skewed.

The rationalization that evolution has done this doesn't work. We have had millions(or billions, or if you just count our species at least 100,000 years) of years to evolve the current selection of viruses and bacteria we have now. Evolving a comparable set in 750 years(see Nimue wake up scene) just isn't probable.

A possible rationalization, that I haven't poked holes in yet(I but I haven't tried hard), is that only the truly deadly diseases were eradicated(small pox(already did), HIV, bubonic plague, ect) leaving less deadly diseases such as syphilis, gonorrhea, Common cold(is deadly but not generally to whole populations), strep throat(more dangerous form scarlet fever), malaria(possibly, no mosquitos though), in non-symptomatic carriers. This rationalization does have the benefit of giving a reason for common disease existing but plagues not and plagues would happen even with good hygiene if you don't have the proper medical knowledge(mass produced vaccinations being the most important).
In summary, the plagues were wiped out, but the laziness of the Terran Federation left the lesser diseases repressed but still in the population.

I'd figure the evolution of some bacteria and viruses from practically harmless forms to harmful enough from the existing, imported terrestrial stock in the space of 750 years is quite easy. Antibiotic-resistant strains crop up in only a few years - evolution isn't exclusively something taking geological timeframes.

I would certainly doubt that bugs native to Safehold are getting a grip on terrestrial biology directly yet - but on the other hand, Safehold-native and terrestrial species can and do eat one another, so if they're not isolated for digestion, they may not be isolated for some forms of infection either. And if Safehold humans have genetically modified gut fauna, for instance, for digesting Safehold-native plants or animals at all, those gut fauna would plausibly be vulnerable and if your gut fauna are taking hits, you're taking hits.

Note: What was the explanation for disease before the rebellion. After all, the first generation Safeholdians had no protection so they should have gotten sick and if they got sick and died in say childhood. Then their imperfection(distance from god's flame) doesn't explain why when others are not sick. Also, telling one generation your sick because of this and then telling the children your sick for an entirely different reason might cause some trouble with the older generation.

It might. Maybe it did. But if you can silence people asking awkward questions and destroy records, you can shunt that kind of awkwardness out of the mainstream and confine it to organizations like the Sisters of St. Kohdy.

Guys, spoilers.

Duckk wrote:Guys, spoilers.

I am not sure what you mean but if this should have spoiler in the title please say so and I will do so.