The Battle of Darius - What would you say?

Andy33 wrote:All this is very well, but can you really see Honor, of all people, killing the huge number of genetic slaves on Darius who quite obviously have no part in framing MAlign policy. She's got to call for the planet to surrender without sending half the Mesa Alignment Navy or the space stations crashing onto the planetary surface.

After we are all fully vented and satiated, we must eventually come to terms with Andy's and Hutch's point.

I know. No fair. We're all stock raving mad and want retribution. And we shall have it. But we cannot kill innocents, or we are no better than they that we hunt.

Yet, the MALign - in knowing the GA's humanitarian side - I'm thinking they will undoubtedly refuse to surrender and hold countless numbers of slaves hostage, forcing the GA to launch a planetary assault. I'm having flashbacks of the Blackbird base.

Should treecats be employed in that capacity? Could cats play a key role in a ground-side attack, warning of traps, ambushes, etc., because they can sense emotions?

cthia wrote:

Andy33 wrote:All this is very well, but can you really see Honor, of all people, killing the huge number of genetic slaves on Darius who quite obviously have no part in framing MAlign policy. She's got to call for the planet to surrender without sending half the Mesa Alignment Navy or the space stations crashing onto the planetary surface.

After we are all fully vented and satiated, we must eventually come to terms with Andy's and Hutch's point.

I know. No fair. We're all stock raving mad and want retribution. And we shall have it. But we cannot kill innocents, or we are no better than they that we hunt.

Yet, the MALign - in knowing the GA's humanitarian side - I'm thinking they will undoubtedly refuse to surrender and hold countless numbers of slaves hostage, forcing the GA to launch a planetary assault. I'm having flashbacks of the Blackbird base.

Should treecats be employed in that capacity? Could cats play a key role in a ground-side attack, warning of traps, ambushes, etc., because they can sense emotions?

I think that every one would agree the the GA is not going to want to kill a world of innocent people, slaves or not. But what could be easily done it to wipe out the ships and any orbitals along with any spaceport facilities on the ground. The whole planet of Darius could be made into a type of prison, isn't Masada more or less maintained that way? I don't remember.

But would Darius have a bunch of genetic slaves on it? If this is their true home world would they have anything but their best genetic lines living there? Would genetic slaves be considered a contamination of Darius? Wouldn't Darius be filled with nothing but people fully aware of who they are and what the goals of the Mesan Alignment are?

But this is all getting away from the original topic of the thread. I was really looking forward to reading people's Honorverse version of Churchill, Lincoln, Roosevelt or even Schwarzenegger, Eastwood moments.

cthia wrote:

Andy33 wrote:All this is very well, but can you really see Honor, of all people, killing the huge number of genetic slaves on Darius who quite obviously have no part in framing MAlign policy. She's got to call for the planet to surrender without sending half the Mesa Alignment Navy or the space stations crashing onto the planetary surface.

After we are all fully vented and satiated, we must eventually come to terms with Andy's and Hutch's point.

I know. No fair. We're all stock raving mad and want retribution. And we shall have it. But we cannot kill innocents, or we are no better than they that we hunt.

Yet, the MALign - in knowing the GA's humanitarian side - I'm thinking they will undoubtedly refuse to surrender and hold countless numbers of slaves hostage, forcing the GA to launch a planetary assault. I'm having flashbacks of the Blackbird base.

Should treecats be employed in that capacity? Could cats play a key role in a ground-side attack, warning of traps, ambushes, etc., because they can sense emotions?

StealthSeeker wrote:
I think that every one would agree the the GA is not going to want to kill a world of innocent people, slaves or not. But what could be easily done it to wipe out the ships and any orbitals along with any spaceport facilities on the ground. The whole planet of Darius could be made into a type of prison, isn't Masada more or less maintained that way? I don't remember.

But would Darius have a bunch of genetic slaves on it? If this is their true home world would they have anything but their best genetic lines living there? Would genetic slaves be considered a contamination of Darius? Wouldn't Darius be filled with nothing but people fully aware of who they are and what the goals of the Mesan Alignment are?

But this is all getting away from the original topic of the thread. I was really looking forward to reading people's Honorverse version of Churchill, Lincoln, Roosevelt or even Schwarzenegger, Eastwood moments.

You mean like...

"Bend over. No lube included, so this is going to really hurt."

StealthSeeker wrote:But would Darius have a bunch of genetic slaves on it? If this is their true home world would they have anything but their best genetic lines living there? Would genetic slaves be considered a contamination of Darius? Wouldn't Darius be filled with nothing but people fully aware of who they are and what the goals of the Mesan Alignment are?.

Darius' population is mostly genetic slaves, and information about the outside universe is tightly controlled there. Darius is unique in that the legal protections for slaves under the Mesan constitution (or rather, their near-equivalents on Darius) are actually followed seriously and scrupulously. So if anyone on Darius hears horror stories about genetic slavery "out there", they will scoff at them as ridiculous propaganda or at best rumors distorted in passing - they know what slavery is like, it may not be precisely great, but totally livable. And it helps maintain an us-versus-them public sentiment.

Also, "the best genetic lines" aren't particularly distinct from those of slaves. The whole point of Manpower was cover for the Alignment's genetic experimentation, and the closest relatives of genetic slaves other than other slaves are precisely the Mesan star lines. Granted, what the aim of the genetic experimentation is will vary from the slave lines to the star lines. Strength, docility, sexual capacity, technical skill, looks may be some of the star qualities among the slave lines; general intelligence, "leadership", looks again, general health will be the targets for the star lines. But there's overlap aplenty and so much of the genetic "superiority" of the slave lines for their particular niches is sheer advertising BS anyway - I defy you to suppose it's all that different for the "star" lines either.

But anyway, put more briefly: fill a planet with the best "slave" lines, and you've got very nearly exactly the genetic background you'd have filling it with the best "star" lines anyway.

StealthSeeker wrote: I think that every one would agree the the GA is not going to want to kill a world of innocent people, slaves or not. But what could be easily done it to wipe out the ships and any orbitals along with any spaceport facilities on the ground. The whole planet of Darius could be made into a type of prison, isn't Masada more or less maintained that way? I don't remember.

But would Darius have a bunch of genetic slaves on it? If this is their true home world would they have anything but their best genetic lines living there? Would genetic slaves be considered a contamination of Darius? Wouldn't Darius be filled with nothing but people fully aware of who they are and what the goals of the Mesan Alignment are?

Nope. From Mission of Honor,

By now, the Darius System's total population was in the very near vicinity of 3.9 billion, of whom just under two billion were representatives of one of the alpha, beta, or gamma genomes the Alignment had worked to improve for so long. The remainder of the system population were genetic slaves, but the conditions of their slavery were very unlike those which obtained elsewhere. ...
Every one of those slaves had been born here in Darius, and not one of them had ever left the system. Their knowledge of what was happening elsewhere in the galaxy, of the history of Mesa, or of their own history had been carefully controlled for generations. They'd been aware for those same generations that they and their parents and grandparents had been laboring to build first the basic industry and then the specialized infrastructure to support a massive navy, but they were convinced it was intended as a defensive fleet.

cthia wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:But this is all getting away from the original topic of the thread. I was really looking forward to reading people's Honorverse version of Churchill, Lincoln, Roosevelt or even Schwarzenegger, Eastwood moments.

You mean like...

"Bend over. No lube included, so this is going to really hurt."

Well, not quite Churchill like, but enjoyable.

cthia wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:But this is all getting away from the original topic of the thread. I was really looking forward to reading people's Honorverse version of Churchill, Lincoln, Roosevelt or even Schwarzenegger, Eastwood moments.

You mean like...

"Bend over. No lube included, so this is going to really hurt."

StealthSeeker wrote:


Well, not quite Churchill like, but enjoyable.

Churchill-like? Well why didn't you say so?

You mean something like...

1. Grand fleet to System Darius. Check.
2. Queens pawns to ground-side. Post.
3. Monarch to underground bunker. Castle.
4. Accompanying fleets hyper in. Flank.
5. Salamander to high orbitals. Checkmate.

(no formal greeting) Fleet Admiral Honor Harington here, on orders from Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth of the Empire of Manticore and in service to to all of her citizens there in ... living and deceased.... See you in a few hours.... Out.

cthia wrote:Churchill-like? Well why didn't you say so?

You mean something like...

1. Grand fleet to System Darius. Check.
2. Queens pawns to ground-side. Post.
3. Monarch to underground bunker. Castle.
4. Accompanying fleets hyper in. Flank.
5. Salamander to high orbitals. Checkmate.

Or how about...

This shall be your final hour!

I thought of another Churchill hill like one....


Today shall be the beginning of your end!


But those are to literal in how much they are Churchill like. I was looking for something the has the bold power and cleverness such as those people like Churchill, Lincoln, Roosevelt but embody the persona of your favorite Honorverse character. What words would they say when they opened communications with Darius before the GA attack on it? At least that is how I took the request of the opening post.