Charis version of the Panama Canal

Ugh they have an iron bottleneck already, and railroads are resource hogs plain and simple. Let’s look at a mile of track laid with fifty-five pound to the yard rail, ties two feet on center, and in fact the same rail specified for the first transcontinental railroad in the 1863 Pacific Railroad Act. For a mile of track the rails weigh 86.43 tons in 352 thirty foot rails. Splice bars weigh (352 @ 29 lbs/ pair ÷ 2,000 lbs/ ton =) 5.104 tons. Nuts and bolts weigh (352 x 4 x 200lbs ÷ 259 ÷ 2,000 lbs =) 0.544 tons. Spikes weigh (5,632 lbs ÷ 2,000 lbs / ton =) 2.816 tons. Totaling the ironmongery we have 94.894 tons say 95 tons.

You need passing sidings yards etc so a 100 mile railroad will easily have 150 miles of track that's 14,250 tons of steel or wrought iron for rails alone, then add locomotives cars water tank bands switch stands, etc would easily double this say 28,500 tons get the idea?

Poker

Charis almost certainly doesn't have companies. Companies arose from trade(Which Charis has) and the trade monopolies over regions licensed to them by the government(Which Charis doesn't have). So they wouldn't have such an innovation yet.

pokermind wrote:Ugh they have an iron bottleneck already, and railroads are resource hogs plain and simple.

Interesting numbers. This whole idea of new canals and railroads needs to wait for after the current war, precisely because right now Charis hasn't got too many resources to spare.

pokermind wrote:Ugh they have an iron bottleneck already, and railroads are resource hogs plain and simple....

Poker

If it were to be a Panama type canal with locks, well they are water hogs. The Panama Canal works so well because so much rain water is available to power the locks. Not sure this would be true for the proposed canals in either location. Especially a canal good enough for ocean going ships.

I suspect that rail would be a better deal regardless in Charis. If not now, soon enough.

pokermind wrote:Ugh they have an iron bottleneck already, and railroads are resource hogs plain and simple. Let’s look at a mile of track laid with fifty-five pound to the yard rail, ties two feet on center, and in fact the same rail specified for the first transcontinental railroad in the 1863 Pacific Railroad Act. For a mile of track the rails weigh 86.43 tons in 352 thirty foot rails. Splice bars weigh (352 @ 29 lbs/ pair ÷ 2,000 lbs/ ton =) 5.104 tons. Nuts and bolts weigh (352 x 4 x 200lbs ÷ 259 ÷ 2,000 lbs =) 0.544 tons. Spikes weigh (5,632 lbs ÷ 2,000 lbs / ton =) 2.816 tons. Totaling the ironmongery we have 94.894 tons say 95 tons.

You need passing sidings yards etc so a 100 mile railroad will easily have 150 miles of track that's 14,250 tons of steel or wrought iron for rails alone, then add locomotives cars water tank bands switch stands, etc would easily double this say 28,500 tons get the idea?

Poker

Look HERE for some real world examples.

Regarding rails, this was not a big problem. The ET Works rail mill was capable of turning out 200 tons of rails every day in 1875. It could roll 60-65 pound rails in less than two minutes. Bridges and tunnels were a bigger problem, of course.

It's a big problem when you don't have the steel to roll and they are robbing Peter to pay Paul to get the steels for naval construction as more steel production comes on line no problem, but right now they ain't got the metal.

Nice figures, thanks for the link.

Captain Igloo wrote:

pokermind wrote:Ugh they have an iron bottleneck already, and railroads are resource hogs plain and simple. Let’s look at a mile of track laid with fifty-five pound to the yard rail, ties two feet on center, and in fact the same rail specified for the first transcontinental railroad in the 1863 Pacific Railroad Act. For a mile of track the rails weigh 86.43 tons in 352 thirty foot rails. Splice bars weigh (352 @ 29 lbs/ pair ÷ 2,000 lbs/ ton =) 5.104 tons. Nuts and bolts weigh (352 x 4 x 200lbs ÷ 259 ÷ 2,000 lbs =) 0.544 tons. Spikes weigh (5,632 lbs ÷ 2,000 lbs / ton =) 2.816 tons. Totaling the ironmongery we have 94.894 tons say 95 tons.

You need passing sidings yards etc so a 100 mile railroad will easily have 150 miles of track that's 14,250 tons of steel or wrought iron for rails alone, then add locomotives cars water tank bands switch stands, etc would easily double this say 28,500 tons get the idea?

Poker

Look HERE for some real world examples.

Regarding rails, this was not a big problem. The ET Works rail mill was capable of turning out 200 tons of rails every day in 1875. It could roll 60-65 pound rails in less than two minutes. Bridges and tunnels were a bigger problem, of course.

There are kind of two canals that meet the image, the canl that cuts dohlar from the republic, and that silkiah canals. THe dohlar one might be longer, but with the republic right there, it would be easier to secure with tier allies help. The salthar canal will always carry the risk of interference from desnair. Also, it would have to be expanded to allow for bigger ships.
With their advancing tech leven, could they not simply build a whole new canal. I always thought there should be one on the land bridge between howard and haven, at the thinnest part, but apparently it was too mountainous. I am wondering, if using explosives and steam powered engines, could a canal be created there. I can imagine, bridges, roads and aqua ducts being built to help the effort. Is there such a thing as an under ground canal, or one that could go throug the mountains?

I had this idea that the orbital cannon could be used on the land brige, so crack open a route for ships. It would be easier for charis to secure, as their big ships are easier to be stationed here.

SYED wrote:There are kind of two canals that meet the image, the canl that cuts dohlar from the republic, and that silkiah canals. THe dohlar one might be longer, but with the republic right there, it would be easier to secure with tier allies help. The salthar canal will always carry the risk of interference from desnair. Also, it would have to be expanded to allow for bigger ships.
With their advancing tech leven, could they not simply build a whole new canal. I always thought there should be one on the land bridge between howard and haven, at the thinnest part, but apparently it was too mountainous. I am wondering, if using explosives and steam powered engines, could a canal be created there. I can imagine, bridges, roads and aqua ducts being built to help the effort. Is there such a thing as an under ground canal, or one that could go throug the mountains?

I had this idea that the orbital cannon could be used on the land brige, so crack open a route for ships. It would be easier for charis to secure, as their big ships are easier to be stationed here.

At least for the current war, I don't think that Desnairian interference with the Salthar canal will be a problem. Desnair doesn't have the resourses at this point to equip an army to replace the one they lost with modern weapons. Therefore a comparatively modest holding force watching that road over the mountains should be sufficient to prevent any Desnairian attempt to interfere with the canal.

Don

Geesh digging the canal is the easy part , assuming your a bit of a psychopath.
Lets say you want to dig one across North Watch in Desnar Starting from the Gulf of Mathyas, through that big lake (whatever it is, the maps I can find don't seem to name it) and continuing on through to Hankey Sound (Which is where I'd put a canal if I was building a link to shorten transit times). Build about 100 AM transmitters (Nice spark gap jobs, really noisy, really easy to locate.) Deploy along preferred route. Have them broadcast out "Bleep you Langhorne" in 16WPM Morse and let the OBS dig it for you. Problem solved. Nice wide canal, probably won't even need locks. Might have to do a bit of dredging afterwords to smooth out the channel bottom but that's what God created steam dredges for. Problem solved. Hey it's not like there's anybody in Desnar I care about anyway. And it has the propaganda value of making it look like God and the Archangels don't want Desnar and the South Harchong empire participating in the Jihad. Win-win situation as long as you have no moral compass.
And this is why the mad scientist always wins in the end. Thinking outside the box!

Larry

P.S. And if it doesn't work (the OBS fails to bombard) than you know small scale shielded spectrum hopping radios are safe for deployment.

Now as for a canal on Charis, which I would probably use a lot more conventional means of constructing. The spot just at the southern end of the Styvyn Mountains suggests itself. I believe it's Crest Hollow province (as best I can make it out with my eyes). It's south of the main mountain chain, close to Tellesburg, measurably shortens sailing times for going West into the Cauldron sea. Remember to properly fortify it so you don't introduce a security problem where there was none before and provide for a railway bridge to go up the coast to the west of the Styvyn Mountains (where judging by the map (http://jiltanith.thefifthimperium.com/C ... %20Map.htm) you have slightly more flat coastal land for a railroad to run without major earth moving and you tie all of Margaret's Land to the main part of Charis. East and south of the mountains are probably more than adequately served by coastal shipping across Howell Bay. Of course once the secret of Silverlode Island is found you're going to want a rail line heading east and then south though Black Rock Vale and Barony of Iron Hill then East again through South Park (South Park? Really Mr. Weber, having a bit of a chuckle were you) then through East Shore, Green Field, and finally Macguire, terminating at a port on the Windhover Sea. Depends of course on where the motherlode is found, of course.
Just some random thoughts.

Larry