HFQ Official Snippet #20

lyonheart wrote:Given that the AoG already passed through the same route last year, the TL's are the only ones left and are thus protected by the CoGA if not the AoG directly, so any mistreatment will be punished by church if not the laws of war etc, so given how devout the Harchong serfs are supposed to be, it's not going to be that big of a problem in the first place, assuming they get past Five Forks, which I doubt.

So lighten up, man!

Given how much of the MHoG is internal police or woefully doomed in battle against the alliance, getting a quarter back to Harchong so soon seems another large stretch, that I'm thinking RFC has other plans.

Such as settling the MHoG ex-serfs on RSA, ex-BS, or ex-eastern KotTL land, and making them citizens etc, so they know and understand self rule etc, so when the North Harchong idiots violate whatever peace treaty, this large well trained 'militia' will be primed and prepared to share all they have learned, and sooner than the remaining CoGA adherents expect, thanks to steam tugs or rails to Zion etc by then.

lyonheart wrote:

You may well be right that the local inquisitors will know they're toast [I prefer raspberry on mine]

L

n7axw wrote:

EdThomas wrote:*quote="n7axw"*When the MOH starts to move, it's going to be strung out like beads on a string. I hope the allies have someone in position for a flanking attack, or even better, cut off their supplies.

Don*quote*
Do you mean there will be significant (e.g. greater than one hour) gaps between units?
Road marches would have the usual accordion thing and canal movements would have standard convoy distances, whatever they might be, in a smooth stream.

What I mean is that they are going to have a very l-o-n-g flank and a very narrow front. IIRC the AOS had something like an 18 mile long flank as they traveled toward Ft. Tairys... Well organized flanking attacks by allied units should be very effective in chopping up the MOH train, given their comparatively slow ability to react and maneuver.

Don

n7axw wrote:

McGuiness wrote:*quote="n7axw"*When the MOH starts to move, it's going to be strung out like beads on a string. I hope the allies have someone in position for a flanking attack, or even better, cut off their supplies.

<snip>

What I mean is that they are going to have a very l-o-n-g flank and a very narrow front. IIRC the AOS had something like an 18 mile long flank as they traveled toward Ft. Tairys... Well organized flanking attacks by allied units should be very effective in chopping up the MOH train, given their comparatively slow ability to react and maneuver.

Don

Snipers could certainly harry the massive line of soldiers, barges, and wagons as the MOH moves along. I'm sure it will have extensive cavalry units protecting its flanks, although there are certainly places where that won't be possible - like "the sides of the Ambyltyn Hill Cut, no more than four miles east of Sarkyn, [which] towered over four hundred feet above canal level at the cut’s deepest point! And smooth, like polished marble!" If there are any locations like that in Siddarmark (that offer a safe route of retreat!) the allies could certainly make the MOH pay a serious price to fight its way past them, while avoiding a repeat of being overrun like the blocking force that stopped Kaitswyrth's initial thrust into Glacierheart before DE arrived, but died to the last man.

My worry is that the MOH will be split into two or more massive parts and sent after Hanth to save Dohlar, to reinforce Kaitswyrth, and to smash BGV. Granted it's easier to defeat an army of 600,000 that carries "only" 200,000 rifles than one of 1.6 million with 600,000 rifles!

This is the point where I wonder if the Great Canal Raid was a good idea, assuming that Earl Highmount would have arrived in time to stop Wyrshym from curling around the mountains east of the Sylmahn Gap to attack Old Province from the north. If he had, then the hordes of Harchongese would have been very little more than cannon fodder, a massive drain on the CoGA's logistics, and much more dangerous to the local daughters of Mother Church than the enemy during most of their travels. The revulsion that would have resulted among even the TLs in Siddarmark as they were the victims of multiple waves of rape and plunder would have turned them against the jihad, even though most of them wouldn't dare to raise a hand against the CoGA.

Merlin may have some of the same thoughts about the Great Canal Raid's unintended results - and if he does, it will be one of the few times I've managed to accurately predict what's coming. Even if he doesn't, he and the allies are now forced to look at the Harchongese force with a great deal of dismay. Of course the CoGA isn't necessarily overjoyed, since it has to treat the MOH as a two-edged sword. It's basically a swarm of locusts as it travels, especially if the church's logistics force it to forage. Slaves that are turned loose on a local populace who they believe have turned against God are going to commit atrocities (even the local TLs) when they believe God has waived all rules of decency due to the rules of jihad.

The best thing to do with the MOH from the allied viewpoint is to send it home with all its rifles, plenty of ammo, and blood in its eye after learning that not only did its masters intend that none of the serfs that make up the vast majority of its numbers ever return home, but that they intended to use them as cannon fodder! Once the serfs of the MOH learn that their devotion was betrayed, the thirst for vengeance against their masters is going to overwhelm them, and they would be rather seek revenge against those who have lied to and mistreated them rather than die at the hands of the allied forces.

I'm not sure how the allies could get the MOH (or any part of it) to surrender and return home for vengeance without putting Siddarmarkans through a second round of rape and pillage as it retreats. I doubt anyone but Merlin and Archbishop Staynair would feel too badly for the Border States and Harchong as the horde makes its way home, or for the massive slave revolt that would result once it arrives...

Should that happen, I doubt Magwair would survive. That would unbalance the Go4, weakening Duchairn as well, since he's in charge of logistics. At that point Duchairn would be forced to attempt any coup he may have planned with the aid of Captain Phandys. That would result in a civil war among the Temple Guard and the forces controlled by the Inquisition in the temple and Zion. Clyntahn might get what's coming to him, but I don't see how - he has complete control of the large Inquisition forces in the area, as well as the Temple Guard - as far as we know.

Merlin still needs Clyntahn as much as he hates him, since the Grand Iniquitor never met a dispensation he didn't like as long as it helps the war effort. Having someone like Duchairn in charge, who would be likely to reform the vicarate and cleanse the Inquisition is the last thing Merlin needs in his attempt to industrialize Safehold and spur innovation. The day that the CoGA is forced to sue for terms is coming, but I expect that will only happen after the ICN sails into Temple Bay and captures the Temple, allowing Merlin and the inner circle to be in position to thwart whatever is lurking in the Temple basement.*quote*

My notion is that the snipers be angle cannon at a range of two miles as the prequel to a nice solid attack column that smashes its way through the Hachomgian column and comes out the other side.

There is no textev for the inquisition ever being organized as military units. They are the guys that show up at your doorstep at 4 am rather than the milkman.

Don

Louis R wrote:Rather wildly impractical, IMV: they are indeed enormously strung out, but that string runs all the way back to the Bedard Canal. It's possible, in fact quite likely, that the head of it didn't even get as far as Sarkyn. IOW, completely out of the reach of the Allies, since not only do they need to sweep aside the AoG, they have to overrun the Border States. Judging by the 400-foot cut, that's some seriously rugged terrain down there. Slow going, IOW.

Weird Harold wrote:*quote="McGuiness"*... - like "the sides of the Ambyltyn Hill Cut, no more than four miles east of Sarkyn, [which] towered over four hundred feet above canal level at the cut’s deepest point! And smooth, like polished marble!" *quote*

That sounds like a good place for snipers and indirect artillery fire to create a logjam of dead bodies. I don't know if it would be a practical consideration for the ICA, but Don is correct that the Harchong forces are going to be strung out where they can be defeated in detail before they can consolidate into a homogenous force.

Weird Harold wrote:

McGuiness wrote:... - like "the sides of the Ambyltyn Hill Cut, no more than four miles east of Sarkyn, [which] towered over four hundred feet above canal level at the cut’s deepest point! And smooth, like polished marble!"

That sounds like a good place for snipers and indirect artillery fire to create a logjam of dead bodies. I don't know if it would be a practical consideration for the ICA, but Don is correct that the Harchong forces are going to be strung out where they can be defeated in detail before they can consolidate into a homogenous force.

EdThomas wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:That sounds like a good place for snipers and indirect artillery fire to create a logjam of dead bodies. I don't know if it would be a practical consideration for the ICA, but Don is correct that the Harchong forces are going to be strung out where they can be defeated in detail before they can consolidate into a homogenous force.

Thanks for the clarification Don.
Speaking in my half-empty voice, 1 Any raiding force has to go, and return a looong distance with only what they're carrying with them. 2 Getting the wounded out will difficult, and we know there will be wounded. 3 The MHOG/COGA commanders will use their cavalry to widely screen their route, canal or road, so it will be virtually, IMHO, impossible to get any large units in to the point where they can do much damage.
One possible tactic would be to start attacks with the only purpose to force the MHOG to stop and deploy. This will slow the march and only expose attacking forces to lightly armed cavalry screen.
The cut through the mountain would be a good place to put a lot of dynamite to use to do some really serious damage to the Canal. Assuming of course Admiral Pei's canal diggers didn't make the cut too wide to drop a jillion tons of rock in it.

lyonheart wrote:Hi EdThomas,

I'd say it depends on whether the ambushing force plans to maintain contact with its victim for a long or short time [ie raid], the latter only if supplies are short, the former if proper preparations have been made, which can be quite a surprise in itself.

Given how deep ICA artillery can reach with the MHoG helpless to respond in kind, savaging those who've yet to get the word to deploy off the road etc, what happens the next time?

The MHoG probably tries to back off and flank without knowing where exactly to flank, which leads to more cavalry casualties, pretty soon there's not so much surplus cavalry left.

Regarding your points:

1. Distance is relative to our different perceptions, what is 'a looong distance' to you might be short for me.

Please give some examples.

Then again a single dragon wagon load of mines means at least a few thousand, which strung along a high road etc could last a long time, NTM encouraging the MHoG to abandon the high road as simply too darn dangerous.

2. The TO&E tables that RFC provided a couple years back are helpful in gaining some idea of the medical support available to the armies listed, though the IHA wasn't listed despite its easily being the largest, while the ICA has integral medical sections throughout its organization, so coping with wounded will be far easier for them than most CoGA armies, probably including the MHoG.

3. Screening with cavalry against forces with better scouts with mines among other things and very superior extended indirect fire capabilities means lots and lots of MHoG cavalry casualties for very little return especially information, especially considering even the Mahndrayn has a 50-100% higher rate of fire beside considerably greater effective range than a horse archer, NTM can carry more ammunition more easily.

Given the short distance [~400 yards] that cavalry can gallop, versus the current 2500 yard range of the black powder mortars, horse archers are going to suffer very painful exchange ratios long before they ever get close to their target, then when they do, discovering that this 'tiger' or slash lizard is far deadlier than their worse nightmare.

Forcing the van or which ever section attacked just to deploy is an excellent delaying tactic, kudos for mentioning it, NTM by the time enough MHoG have lined up, the dragoons are long gone to attack somewhere else.

I wouldn't be surprised if some scout sniper and dragoon regiments drove their opposite numbers crazy from the constant growing increasingly lethal harassment!

L