Charis version of the Panama Canal

JeffEngel wrote:

anwi wrote:
All true. If I read the maps correctly, there are some probably not minor hills in the way of that particular canal. That's probably the reason, why it's not there already.
However, with railroads on the table, you might want to go for building tunnels and having a track build there. I'd assume that this would be one of the first major railroads that Charis would build - right after this war...

Merlin's forward-area cave, established in OAR, is up near that area on the southern/Tellesberg end. It's a very mountainous spine that effectively isolates (southern) Charis from Margaret's Land. So it would be a real bear for blasting through for a canal, and probably far from easy for a railroad, either underground or over.

That said, I do agree that it's a compelling bit of transportation assistance to take care of. An alternative may be developing a better canal system from Howell Bay through to Margaret's Land's Margaret's Bay, perhaps with a spur west to the ocean coast. The Delthak-Howell Bay portion is already in business; running the rest north from there would be far more distance than the one right across the isthmus, but it's also likely a lot easier going and motivated by local concerns.

That's true but if they were willing to accept a longer canal most likely along the lines of 100 miles long they could go north for the shortest stretch of land where the mountians end.

captinjoehenry wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Merlin's forward-area cave, established in OAR, is up near that area on the southern/Tellesberg end. It's a very mountainous spine that effectively isolates (southern) Charis from Margaret's Land. So it would be a real bear for blasting through for a canal, and probably far from easy for a railroad, either underground or over.

That said, I do agree that it's a compelling bit of transportation assistance to take care of. An alternative may be developing a better canal system from Howell Bay through to Margaret's Land's Margaret's Bay, perhaps with a spur west to the ocean coast. The Delthak-Howell Bay portion is already in business; running the rest north from there would be far more distance than the one right across the isthmus, but it's also likely a lot easier going and motivated by local concerns.

That's true but if they were willing to accept a longer canal most likely along the lines of 100 miles long they could go north for the shortest stretch of land where the mountians end.

That'd be... from the Howell Bay coast opposite Big Tirian running west by southwest into Westrock Reach? It looks like one of the better compromises between apparent mountainousness and distance. But at that point, a southern canal, Tellesberg northwest by west to the west coast, would be only about as long, anchored at one end by Tellesberg itself, and running apparently south of the mountains entirely.

I seem to recall one reference, when Charisian relief forces were being initially ordered to Siddarmark, to at least some minor port on the west coast, west of the mountains. (A message at least and maybe some personnel were to be routed there and take a schooner from there.) It'd help to have an idea about where that might be - developing a canal with a significant port at one or both ends has to help in terms of making sure it's commercially attractive.

I imagine that the original post had to do with the "Crest Hallow" region that would connect Westrock Reach with Howell Bay, perhaps also/instead a role for Trekair Bay.

However… I've got a different idea.
Railroads to get Men and Material to Gulf of Dohlar faster.
Think of the US Civil War, and how very FAST some of those railroads were built. (Not sound and sturdy, but they were done quickly!)


BACKGROUND DATA:
I remember some program on PBS, perhaps it was an episode of "Nova", where there was a presentation of a need for one section of the Survey of India to be done covertly. FFI, see URLs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_of_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Trig ... cal_Survey
The Survey office had locals trained and equipped to do precise pacing and measurements in order to precisely map the territory.
With the maps from the "day of creation", there is not a similar dire need for all-consuming precision, as they DO have a baseline to compare to.

Since there's already "Scout-Snipers", why not "Scout-Surveyors"?

If DW is so interested in taking the story in that direction, there could even now be a covert attempt to have survey teams in northern Desnarian Empire in general (esp. the North Watch region) OR in the southern part of the Grand Duchy of Silkiah.

Then…


PLAN A:
When those territories are conquered (IF he chooses that Charis will NOT use Hsing-wu's Passage to the Temple), there could be a crash construction of a railroad that would connect Hankey Sound (and/or Silkiah Bay) to the Gulf of Mathyas.
Pick your own ports, there HAS to be some population centers in that area that would merit an economic (and not just military) rational for a railroad.

{Note: Yes, I am aware that this somewhat duplicates the Salthar Canal; thus Plan B seems a winner.}



PLAN B:
There could of course, be geographical obstacles in the way for Plan A. The Republic of Siddarma's "South March Lands" would be a longer route, but it may allow for a faster construction. Again, connecting the Gulf of Mathyas, but this time being closer to the Kingdom of Dohlar's "Duchy of Bess".
Again, pick your own ports, for military and economic reasons.
I nominate Thesmar to Dairnyth, assuming the geography works.


Either way gets men and material closer to the Gulf of Dohlar and the southern part of the Temple Lands.

All this is of course moot if DW takes us readers on coal fired fleet of Ice Breakers to the Temple Bay (via Hsing-wu's Passage).




.

Building a canal through the Styven mountains (the mountains that make up the isthmus) are according to RFC not very practical because of the height of the mountains. IIRC RFC said they were like 6-7,000ft high with some of the peaks reaching 8,000+ft. Also think of the Grand Tetons which basically just appears out of the Yellowstone basin. The Grand Tetons have no real foothills. It would be more practical for Charis to build or expand a port and connect it to a R&R. They could also run a R&R from Hanthtown to Delferak to save on shipping time going around Margret's land from Delferak.

saber964 wrote:Building a canal through the Styven mountains (the mountains that make up the isthmus) are according to RFC not very practical because of the height of the mountains. IIRC RFC said they were like 6-7,000ft high with some of the peaks reaching 8,000+ft. Also think of the Grand Tetons which basically just appears out of the Yellowstone basin. The Grand Tetons have no real foothills. It would be more practical for Charis to build or expand a port and connect it to a R&R. They could also run a R&R from Hanthtown to Delferak to save on shipping time going around Margret's land from Delferak.

After looking at the map I think I have found a pretty good location for a canal directly across from sand island a bit above Helen island there is a stretch of flat land which you would only need a canal about 100 miles long to cross

tootall wrote:pokermind Wrote: In the 1850s a railroad was built across Panama that forty-niners used as the least time route. so there is president for a railroad.

My first thought was something on the order of: "So that's how the new players got to the west coast after the draft in New York." And, "Did all the west coast teams use that railroad to get to games on the east coast and vice verse?" ( )

My second thought is how the word draft now refers to football and not -as it did in my day- to national defense. And in some cases to something we thought was a personal disaster. Times change.

I am sure that poker meant precedent for a railroad. Otherwise, if a president has already been appointed, RFC should have revealed who the lucky guy(gal) is. Sorry, but this one struck me funny.

Don

saber964 wrote:Building a canal through the Styven mountains (the mountains that make up the isthmus) are according to RFC not very practical because of the height of the mountains. IIRC RFC said they were like 6-7,000ft high with some of the peaks reaching 8,000+ft. Also think of the Grand Tetons which basically just appears out of the Yellowstone basin. The Grand Tetons have no real foothills. It would be more practical for Charis to build or expand a port and connect it to a R&R. They could also run a R&R from Hanthtown to Delferak to save on shipping time going around Margret's land from Delferak.

I'd figured on Delthak to the SW corner of Margaret's Bay rather than Hanth Town. Hanth Town is way up Margaret's Bay: in effect, the Bay itself is most of a canal running all the way from Delthak to Hanth Town, with the man-made part running NW from Delthak to the natural part. A spur from there westward to the west coast should also avoid the worst of the mountains.

It's entirely possible to combine this canal system with a simpler, shorter railroad west from Tellesburg to the coast. I'm sure the route that would have tolerable grades may be much longer than the one as the wyvern flies, but still, much longer than some 34 miles remains quite all right.

evilauthor wrote:

captinjoehenry wrote:Ok so the spit of land that conects charis to margets land is only 34 miles wide at it's narrowest and there is now area engines so there are steam shovels soon enough and there is also TNT so I believe that Charis is now capable of blasting a canal through that spit of land and that would offer a lot of advantages in cut down travel time.

But is it worth the effort? IIRC, Charis is nowhere near as large as the Americas or the Europe/Asia/Africa trifecta. A ship doesn't have to cross half a hemisphere to get sail from one side of Charis to the other. So the cost and time savings from going around Charis and/or Margaret's Land would be far less than a ship going around South America or Africa.

A better Panama candidate I've heard is the small strip of land that connects Northern and Southern Howard (or whatever the mainland continents are called). People talk about how capturing and holding that land would cut Desnair off from the CoGA. So if the land is really that narrow, then it's narrow enough to put a canal there... assuming there isn't one there already.

You are referring to the strip between Howard and the Havens. There is already a canal there... It's called the Salther (sp) Canal.

I don't really see Charis as being a candidate for more canals. As has already been noted, railroads are coming and will soon connect the more isolated parts of Charis Is. with Tellesburg and Howell Bay.

Don

Snipping for brevity -

Ensign Re-read wrote:I imagine that the original post had to do with the "Crest Hallow" region that would connect Westrock Reach with Howell Bay, perhaps also/instead a role for Trekair Bay.

However… I've got a different idea.
[i]Railroads to get Men and Material to Gulf of Dohlar faster.

I think we could count on Desnairian cavalry at this point to be at least able to run raids to break up a railroad that would have to run across no small amount of territory that tends to be either under-inhabited or somewhat Loyalist.

Also, for getting men and materiel to the Gulf of Dohlar faster - sea travel from Chisholm or Corisande to the Gulf of Dohlar is not short by any means, but it is at least secure and all on one vessel from start to finish. It doesn't involve going around Margaret's Land, north of Tarot, through the Tarot Channel, down south of Siddarmark, back up into the Gulf of Mathyas, into one or another port north/south/in Silkiah (with these last steps around Desnairian privateers, though the military convoys will be able to drive them off well enough); then off the ship, aboard trains, along long, long, LONG and vulnerable tracks, sometimes through poorly held territory, and off in some port on the Gulf of Dohlar - for more sea travel to land somewhere a long and bloody fight from the Temple.

There may be some theoretical time savings, but the chances for things to go wrong or sheer grit to mess up the itinerary goes up badly. You still would have to get from the Gulf of Dohlar to the Temple, and for that, the direct sea route can serve well. Your other options are Hsing-Wu's Passage (brr, but still) or "Zion or Bust" westward march out of Siddarmark.

I can certainly, however, see linkages of the sort in a future peacetime doing a lot to link Dohlar and Silkiah to the Charisian/Siddarmark sphere.

Shucks, you beat me to it!

And that made me think: companies probably wouldn't have 'presidents' even in Charis. As far as that goes, judging by what happened to Howsmyn's bete noir they haven't made it as far as limited-liability companies yet anyway.

n7axw wrote:

tootall wrote:pokermind Wrote: In the 1850s a railroad was built across Panama that forty-niners used as the least time route. so there is president for a railroad.

My first thought was something on the order of: "So that's how the new players got to the west coast after the draft in New York." And, "Did all the west coast teams use that railroad to get to games on the east coast and vice verse?" ( )

My second thought is how the word draft now refers to football and not -as it did in my day- to national defense. And in some cases to something we thought was a personal disaster. Times change.

I am sure that poker meant precedent for a railroad. Otherwise, if a president has already been appointed, RFC should have revealed who the lucky guy(gal) is. Sorry, but this one struck me funny.

Don