The millennial return of the archangels might not be bad

garfield wrote:

SWM wrote:I don't think anyone here believes it won't be bumpy.

I agree. RFC wouldn't have put all that advanced weaponry in Nimue's cave if it wasn't going to be needed.

Not every apparent Chekhov's Gun gets to go bang. The Cave was stocked on the bases of (1) what they figured Nimue could conceivably need, but mostly (2) what they could sneak in. That advanced weaponry could just be making that point, or keeping us guessing. Or, for that matter - these are not mutually exclusive - it could be in the Cave just to preserve it for after the Reveal, as some examples of Terran Federation fighting technology to use for comparison and study. Whole starships were supposed to do that job. Langhorne deep-sixed that plan, but the assault shuttles could represent the best they could still do along such lines.

JeffEngel wrote:Not every apparent Chekhov's Gun gets to go bang. The Cave was stocked on the bases of (1) what they figured Nimue could conceivably need, but mostly (2) what they could sneak in. That advanced weaponry could just be making that point, or keeping us guessing. Or, for that matter - these are not mutually exclusive - it could be in the Cave just to preserve it for after the Reveal, as some examples of Terran Federation fighting technology to use for comparison and study. Whole starships were supposed to do that job. Langhorne deep-sixed that plan, but the assault shuttles could represent the best they could still do along such lines.

Well sure, but from an authors point of view he could have stocked it with anything. Therefore in my opinion it would be dangerous to assume that the "Return" is not going to be too bad as that is the plot point where that kind of equipment is most likely to be needed.

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:
You seem to think these people are going to be interested in anything Nimue has to say. If they get their hands on her, she won't last long enough to be claiming much of anything.

Don

For what reason? She didn't do them any harm; actually, she wasn't even knew about their still-existience until a short time ago.

Because they are meglomanics with delusions of grandeur and she messed with their plan for Safehold. Whether she did them harm or not has nothing to do with it.

That being said, I don't really buy into the notion that what we are going to get is the return of the the real archangels. I think what it is going to turn out to be is some sort of AI. That, by the way, is no guarantee of sanity.

Don

n7axw wrote:Because they are meglomanics with delusions of grandeur and she messed with their plan for Safehold. Whether she did them harm or not has nothing to do with it.

Please, it's all too simple to just point at someone and claim that he was megalomaniac. As we could see in the snippets, even Langhorne now appeared not as bad as he were presented before.

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:Because they are meglomanics with delusions of grandeur and she messed with their plan for Safehold. Whether she did them harm or not has nothing to do with it.

Please, it's all too simple to just point at someone and claim that he was megalomaniac. As we could see in the snippets, even Langhorne now appeared not as bad as he were presented before.

Using the Rakurai on Alexandria and killing thousands of people can force you to change which may have happened to Langhorne. My guess is that that decision weighed heavily on him which may explain a change in demeanor.

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:Because they are meglomanics with delusions of grandeur and she messed with their plan for Safehold. Whether she did them harm or not has nothing to do with it.

Please, it's all too simple to just point at someone and claim that he was megalomaniac. As we could see in the snippets, even Langhorne now appeared not as bad as he were presented before.

I think that within the context of the discussion, my comment has to stand. First of all, if assigning to oneself divine or semi- divine status doesn't qualify as megalomania, there is nothing that would. For Nimue to expect reasoned discussion out of the situation, allowing her to defend her actions would be an exercise in pure futility. Their view of Nimue would be that she stood in the way of what we decided God wanted for Safehold... which is exactly what they decided about Pei Shan-wei. The final result would be the same for Nimue as it was for Shan-wei.

Don

JeffEngel wrote:

SWM wrote:Some of us have suggested in the past that Langhorne was subject to extreme paranoia about the Gbaba, as well as possibly megalomania. In his neurotic mental state, he didn't merely want to duck his own head under the sand--he wanted the entire human race to hide. He was unwilling to accept analyses from other intelligent people that his plan could not work. A person in that kind of state is not likely to think rationally even in the face of clear evidence.

Come to think of it, there may have been a bit more than that. He was literally chosen and charged to lead humanity to a promised land and to mold them according to his design to keep them safe and healthy.

He most certainly was NOT! He was chosen to lead the colonists to a place of safety and implement the mandated and carefully designed plan in which they had all consented to take part - end of. Everything beyond that was an arrogant betrayal of his sacred trust. So 'sympathy?' not likely! Everyone in that generation was under severe pressure, he was not a special case.

Randomiser wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Come to think of it, there may have been a bit more than that. He was literally chosen and charged to lead humanity to a promised land and to mold them according to his design to keep them safe and healthy.

He most certainly was NOT! He was chosen to lead the colonists to a place of safety and implement the mandated and carefully designed plan in which they had all consented to take part - end of. Everything beyond that was an arrogant betrayal of his sacred trust. So 'sympathy?' not likely! Everyone in that generation was under severe pressure, he was not a special case.

Sympathy? I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm filling in some of the explanation of how and why he was dangerously crackers. Of course it was an arrogant betrayal of a sacred trust. But certainly he didn't see it that way, and it wasn't something that came totally out of the blue, with no explanation of it possible but pure and simple evil.

Joat42 wrote:Using the Rakurai on Alexandria and killing thousands of people can force you to change which may have happened to Langhorne. My guess is that that decision weighed heavily on him which may explain a change in demeanor.

What change in demeanor? Langhorne only lived a matter of hours after using the Rakurai on Alexandria. Pei killed Langhorne and many others with his pocket nuke. Pei didn't live long enough to show any change in demeanor due to guilt from Alexandria.

David has told us numerous times that Langhorne was not a purely evil person. He believed he was doing what was best for humanity. And clearly he was able to convince a lot of other people that this was the best choice. He may have been misguided, or mistaken, or even insane, but he did what he thought had to be done for the good of everyone. If the snippets show Langhorne was not a devil with horns and forked tail, that is just representing what David has been telling us for years. (But please don't tell me what the snippets actually say--I don't do spoilers.)

The one thing I don't get would be how do the archangels that come back even know who/what Merlin is. I mean if they can't detect a PICA from a distance then there is no real way for them to find him or Nimue and all of the technology which the inner circle is using is all very heavily stealthed against first line sensors as The textev has stated quite a few times so it is unlikely they would find out about Merlin as anything other than an extremely competent warrior as no one outside of the inner circle knows that he is the source of all of the inventions and they know that there is no technology left over that they do not control so why is everyone assuming that the archangels will know about Merlin?