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Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form of RD

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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by kzt   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:42 am

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drothgery wrote:
kzt wrote:And no, all the missiles not on ships got all blowed up.
No one in-universe is acting like this is the case, so I'm going to conclude that it's not.


Really? What makes you think the entire military command lied to the Queen?

MoH, Chapter 30
"I remain confident that the missiles we have deployed are superior to those of any probable enemy, but the ones we already have aboard ship, or aboard ammunition ships assigned to our fleet formations, are all the missiles we have. All we're going to have until we can rebuild our production facilities . . . "

They are also not acting like they have a critical shortage of spare parts available, but they obviously do. What limited capabilities provided by repair facilities and ships to manufacture and refurbish components up are busy trying to rebuild their industrial infrastructure and build missiles, and the main storage depots on the 3 naval bases were destroyed with them.

David is trying to have it both ways, with the attack being this devastating blow that doesn't actually really impact anything important, other then making Honor really mad.
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:39 am

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kzt wrote:Really? What makes you think the entire military command lied to the Queen?

MoH, Chapter 30
"I remain confident that the missiles we have deployed are superior to those of any probable enemy, but the ones we already have aboard ship, or aboard ammunition ships assigned to our fleet formations, are all the missiles we have. All we're going to have until we can rebuild our production facilities . . . "

They are also not acting like they have a critical shortage of spare parts available, but they obviously do. What limited capabilities provided by repair facilities and ships to manufacture and refurbish components up are busy trying to rebuild their industrial infrastructure and build missiles, and the main storage depots on the 3 naval bases were destroyed with them.

David is trying to have it both ways, with the attack being this devastating blow that doesn't actually really impact anything important, other then making Honor really mad.



Interesting that attack on the home system managed to have a legs we never heard about that blew up all the ammo dumps in say, Trevor's Star, Zanzibar, Spindle, the Junction ... you know all those places where there is a fleet presence. Which is what would required to have that statement be true. Hence statement was erroneous.

You are taking a public statement and drawing overblown conclusions because it supports your position. While conveniently ignoring things that don't support it.

Of course my delusions say that as the US has been smart enough since the War of 1812 to have manufacturing plants and ammo dumps separate. But that is just me. But then again I have visited Seal Beach and Yorktown to off load and load ordnance. Funny how there isn't a thing around either to build a bloody thing. Or all those army bunkers I pass during those trips around the US. But sure Manticore and RFC are too stupid to do the same.

Jeez, step back a bit and think a bit.

T2M
-----------------------
Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by JeffEngel   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:03 am

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Bill Woods wrote:
munroburton wrote: Any engagements where all involved SLN ships are not destroyed or surrendered qualifies as a victory.
Jeez, you can't set the bar lower than that!

"Our heroes in the Fleet fought several successful sims this last week. Those virtual Manticorans won't be bothering anyone ever again! Please take a moment of silence to honor our brave men and women in uniform who died to make your freedom possible today."
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by biochem   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:34 am

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Any engagements where all involved SLN ships are not destroyed or surrendered qualifies as a victory.
]

Jeez, you can't set the bar lower than that!


"Our heroes in the Fleet fought several successful sims this last week. Those virtual Manticorans won't be bothering anyone ever again! Please take a moment of silence to honor our brave men and women in uniform who died to make your freedom possible today."


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by munroburton   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:56 pm

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biochem wrote:
Any engagements where all involved SLN ships are not destroyed or surrendered qualifies as a victory.
]

Jeez, you can't set the bar lower than that!


"Our heroes in the Fleet fought several successful sims this last week. Those virtual Manticorans won't be bothering anyone ever again! Please take a moment of silence to honor our brave men and women in uniform who died to make your freedom possible today."


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


In a way, that was their previous bar. "The latest BF sims shows all is well, we are invincible. What about the Haven sector navies, you say? Our active battle fleet has twice as many SDs as they have combined and we have four times as many than that in Reserve."
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by SharkHunter   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:06 pm

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--snipping... while snickering uncontrollably--
Any engagements where all involved SLN ships are not destroyed or surrendered qualifies as a victory.
...
Jeez, you can't set the bar lower than that!
...
"Our heroes in the Fleet fought several successful sims this last week. Those virtual Manticorans won't be bothering anyone ever again! Please take a moment of silence to honor our brave men and women in uniform who died to make your freedom possible today."
"What, the neobarbs said that Filareta lost? why we have footage of the Good Admiral standing on the bridge of the vast 11th Fleet Armada! (shows the winning sims) and here's our latest footage showing all of those ships being brought back [smart nano-paint titles on existing ships] to the Reserve now that they are no longer needed.

We'll be needing some money to resupply those good ships with missiles, and do a few repairs now that the Nasty Manticorans are humbled, so if you'd just subscribe to our War Bond issue for sixty quadrillion dollars, we'll be glad to Protect You again with Battle Fleet 2100 hardware. And for you youngsters, feel free to sign up on the dotted line and we'll train you up to be Galactic Winners as soon as the ships are ready"

And in other news....
---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by kzt   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:03 pm

kzt
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thinkstoomuch wrote:
kzt wrote:But then again I have visited Seal Beach and Yorktown to off load and load ordnance. Funny how there isn't a thing around either to build a bloody thing. Or all those army bunkers I pass during those trips around the US. But sure Manticore and RFC are too stupid to do the same.

It is well known that the biggest naval bases for the RMN were in orbit around the home planets. They BLEW UP the naval bases, along with the manufacturing plants that happened to be located on the same orbital station.

Obviously the RMN should have asked for your advice before constructing their orbital infrastructure.
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:16 pm

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kzt wrote:It is well known that the biggest naval bases for the RMN were in orbit around the home planets. They BLEW UP the naval bases, along with the manufacturing plants that happened to be located on the same orbital station.

Obviously the RMN should have asked for your advice before constructing their orbital infrastructure.


Or perhaps, heaven forbid, Elizabeth didn't get entirely accurate with a system wide speech.

Especially when the Author has said in later books that the missile dumps weren't hit. You know all those pods that Henke deployed. Must be all sunshine and moonbeams. Because her ammo ships went with her. Or are you saying someone with her experience is going to leave station with no reloads.

Wait you already said that.

T2M
-----------------------
Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by Somtaaw   » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:20 am

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Louis R wrote:there are a couple of things you are missing in all this.

first off, most of the galaxy's pirates are the equivalent of buccaneers trying to run down galleons in rowboats off the Caimans - they have neither the sophistication nor the capacity to operate any sort of drone. most of the rest are operating feebly armed yachts in the frigate size range - 60-70kT - and, while they may have the sophistication, still don't have the capacity to carry anything as big as a real RD. at 300-500T, RD's are bigger than pinnaces. and, as has been pointed out, are honking expensive to acquire and operate. that reduces them to something like your 'improv' design. however...


Oh agreed, I'm definitely understating the build requirements for even a simplistic RD, but it does get easier after the first ghetto drone is built. But to address your main points, which sort of tie into the ghetto drone.

Currently the US Armed Forces deploy Predator UAV's for recon (and one could argue also attack, since its rumoured they do have some Anti-Tank TOW missiles on some Predators). These Predator UAV's are some of the most modern reconnaisance tools on Earth that are known of, we can equate Predator drones (unarmed) as Ghost Rider drones, and the armed Preds as Mistletoe Ghost Rider drones.

But for basic reconnaisance, even a kid with a cheap (relatively of course) remote control airplane or helicopter can do limited scouting. Your example of the Somalia pirates, if they had a few RC planes/choppers with a camera, they could check to see if a freigher had anyone walking around, prior to getting close enough for the freighter crews to spot them. Outside of the military, most people don't think to look up while supposedly pulling guard duty.

To the second point, how about instead of full up drones (ballistic or otherwise) just using sensor head equipped beacons. That was done in OBS by Honor, so not only years before both FTL and Ghost Rider programs even existed.

"I'm not certain how many probes we have in stores, Ma'am, but I am certain you're right about our inability to achieve complete coverage even if we can—I mean, even after we have fitted them all with station-keeping drives." He was speaking stiffly, and he knew it, but he was also contributing to the solution of a problem for the first time since Harrington had come on never intended for long-term deployment like this. But we might be able to increase their effective time on station by setting them for burst activation. They've got a passive detection range of just over twenty light-minutes against an active impeller drive. If they're on the ten-light-minute shell, they'll have a reach of over half a light-hour from the primary—call it forty minutes' flight time."

"If we set them to come up for, say, thirty seconds every half-hour, they should detect any incoming vessel under power in normal-space at least twenty light-minutes out. That should give us sufficient time to respond, and at the same time increase their endurance by a factor of sixty."



Standard warning and navigation beacons seem to be carried by warships, pre-First Havenite war at least enough to provide a good chunk of system coverage. Now obviously a pirate would have to carry even more, but they can also cherrypick the sensor locations for maximum yield. Examples would be the section of a system where a grav wave intersects, or where ships have a high probability of coming out of hyper on a least-time course for assets deeper in system.


Thoughts on the beacons, rather than either full up RD's that were used at the same time frame of roughly 1900 PD, or a ballistic drone?
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Re: Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form o
Post by Kizarvexis   » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:08 am

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Somtaaw wrote:-snip-

To the second point, how about instead of full up drones (ballistic or otherwise) just using sensor head equipped beacons. That was done in OBS by Honor, so not only years before both FTL and Ghost Rider programs even existed.

"I'm not certain how many probes we have in stores, Ma'am, but I am certain you're right about our inability to achieve complete coverage even if we can—I mean, even after we have fitted them all with station-keeping drives." He was speaking stiffly, and he knew it, but he was also contributing to the solution of a problem for the first time since Harrington had come on never intended for long-term deployment like this. But we might be able to increase their effective time on station by setting them for burst activation. They've got a passive detection range of just over twenty light-minutes against an active impeller drive. If they're on the ten-light-minute shell, they'll have a reach of over half a light-hour from the primary—call it forty minutes' flight time."

"If we set them to come up for, say, thirty seconds every half-hour, they should detect any incoming vessel under power in normal-space at least twenty light-minutes out. That should give us sufficient time to respond, and at the same time increase their endurance by a factor of sixty."



Standard warning and navigation beacons seem to be carried by warships, pre-First Havenite war at least enough to provide a good chunk of system coverage. Now obviously a pirate would have to carry even more, but they can also cherrypick the sensor locations for maximum yield. Examples would be the section of a system where a grav wave intersects, or where ships have a high probability of coming out of hyper on a least-time course for assets deeper in system.


Thoughts on the beacons, rather than either full up RD's that were used at the same time frame of roughly 1900 PD, or a ballistic drone?


IMO, it is strongly implied that the sensors placed in OBS were FTL the same way they were in HotQ. They did cost hundreds of millions of Manty dollars to emplace in OBS.
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