Could Clyntahn be a PICA?

Merlin speculated that the Archangels could also have had the resources to create a PICA for their purposes. If so, it seems to make a lot of sense that they would have done so.

He speculated in book 6 or 7 how this PICA could be operating (i.e. more than one PICA using the same personality but bootstrapping each other. PICA sleeping most of the time but waking every so often to check on Safehold progress, etc). This could be the source of the legend that the Archangel(was it Schuler?) would return after 1000 years, etc.. (the time for the return was speculative, so perhaps it already happened)

Clyntahn often behaves as though he believes his own propaganda (Maigwair comments several times on this), which could just be his own megalomania. However, what if two bootstrapping PICA's are passing bad information back and forth between each other? Or what if the PICA is based on the corrupted memories of a dying megalomaniac (i.e. Langhorne)?

It would make sense to try and preserve Langhorne's personality if he was not immediately killed by the Pei's attack, and the technology was available. (though perhaps they created a faulty PICA, resulting in some memory corruption?)

There are instances where Clyntahn seems to know more than he should about certain technologies, such as when he is informed that the Charisians have begun using steam power. He doesn't appear to be ignorant of the technology, just angry that it is being used. There are other such instances.

Also, I feel that Schuler's 'split personality'. (ie. writing a book that is so evil, yet appearing very loving in holo's to Paiter's family) is somehow connected. Merlin is also confused by this, and mentions that the book of Schuler was written later than the other books of the Holy Writ. Could a crazed Pica have added the book later to the Writ?

If he was, I don't think he'd have taken so long to get on top of why Charis seems to have such a sort coms loop, or where all these new ideas that keeps Charis ahead of the CoGA troops are coming from, and I doubt he would have been so cavalier about kicking off a war that could only have destabilized the geo political structure of the planet.

annaski wrote:Merlin speculated that the Archangels could also have had the resources to create a PICA for their purposes. If so, it seems to make a lot of sense that they would have done so.

He speculated in book 6 or 7 how this PICA could be operating (i.e. more than one PICA using the same personality but bootstrapping each other. PICA sleeping most of the time but waking every so often to check on Safehold progress, etc). This could be the source of the legend that the Archangel(was it Schuler?) would return after 1000 years, etc.. (the time for the return was speculative, so perhaps it already happened)

Clyntahn often behaves as though he believes his own propaganda (Maigwair comments several times on this), which could just be his own megalomania. However, what if two bootstrapping PICA's are passing bad information back and forth between each other? Or what if the PICA is based on the corrupted memories of a dying megalomaniac (i.e. Langhorne)?

It would make sense to try and preserve Langhorne's personality if he was not immediately killed by the Pei's attack, and the technology was available. (though perhaps they created a faulty PICA, resulting in some memory corruption?)

There are instances where Clyntahn seems to know more than he should about certain technologies, such as when he is informed that the Charisians have begun using steam power. He doesn't appear to be ignorant of the technology, just angry that it is being used. There are other such instances.

Also, I feel that Schuler's 'split personality'. (ie. writing a book that is so evil, yet appearing very loving in holo's to Paiter's family) is somehow connected. Merlin is also confused by this, and mentions that the book of Schuler was written later than the other books of the Holy Writ. Could a crazed Pica have added the book later to the Writ?

annaski wrote:Merlin speculated that the Archangels could also have had the resources to create a PICA for their purposes. If so, it seems to make a lot of sense that they would have done so.

He speculated in book 6 or 7 how this PICA could be operating (i.e. more than one PICA using the same personality but bootstrapping each other. PICA sleeping most of the time but waking every so often to check on Safehold progress, etc). This could be the source of the legend that the Archangel(was it Schuler?) would return after 1000 years, etc.. (the time for the return was speculative, so perhaps it already happened)

Clyntahn often behaves as though he believes his own propaganda (Maigwair comments several times on this), which could just be his own megalomania. However, what if two bootstrapping PICA's are passing bad information back and forth between each other? Or what if the PICA is based on the corrupted memories of a dying megalomaniac (i.e. Langhorne)?

It would make sense to try and preserve Langhorne's personality if he was not immediately killed by the Pei's attack, and the technology was available. (though perhaps they created a faulty PICA, resulting in some memory corruption?)

There are instances where Clyntahn seems to know more than he should about certain technologies, such as when he is informed that the Charisians have begun using steam power. He doesn't appear to be ignorant of the technology, just angry that it is being used. There are other such instances.

Also, I feel that Schuler's 'split personality'. (ie. writing a book that is so evil, yet appearing very loving in holo's to Paiter's family) is somehow connected. Merlin is also confused by this, and mentions that the book of Schuler was written later than the other books of the Holy Writ. Could a crazed Pica have added the book later to the Writ?

If Clyntahn's a PICA then quality control at the factory really slipped up!

I think he's pretty much what you see: An intelligent, ambitious, arrogant person who's so certain of the rightness of his cause that he's prepared to go to literally any extreme to win. He might have access to some 'For the Grand Inquisitor's Eyes Only' documents that have a bit more background information, but basically he believes wholeheartedly in the Writ.

jms

annaski wrote:Or what if the PICA is based on the corrupted memories of a dying megalomaniac (i.e. Langhorne)?

It would make sense to try and preserve Langhorne's personality if he was not immediately killed by the Pei's attack, and the technology was available. (though perhaps they created a faulty PICA, resulting in some memory corruption?)

As far as I remember, Langhorne was killed when Kau-Yung went to a meeting with him and used a pocket nuke. Such things do not tend to leave much in the way of recoverable memories...

annaski wrote:There are instances where Clyntahn seems to know more than he should about certain technologies, such as when he is informed that the Charisians have begun using steam power. He doesn't appear to be ignorant of the technology, just angry that it is being used. There are other such instances.

At the time Clyntahn saw the plans for the steam engine, the channel raid was already known to everyone who was anyone on the Temple side. They knew that something (other than sails) powered these boats, and that they used or produced fire in the process.

That explains how the steam engine plans did not come as that much of a surprise... although I did expect more of a "what the Shan-Wei is this thing" when looking at the plans for the first time.

annaski wrote:Also, I feel that Schuler's 'split personality'. (ie. writing a book that is so evil, yet appearing very loving in holo's to Paiter's family) is somehow connected. Merlin is also confused by this, and mentions that the book of Schuler was written later than the other books of the Holy Writ. Could a crazed Pica have added the book later to the Writ?

Well, the simplest explanation is that someone other than Schueler wrote the book and simply attributed it to him so it gains more importance.

And remember that the first generation of colonists - including the command personnel - had the benefits of both prolong and nanites, thus their expected life span was in 250-300 Terran years range.
One of them could have written the Book of Schueler after Schueler himself was dead (or too old or powerless to prevent it).

Nobody knows the whole truth on Safehold except the inner circle. If they did they would have known that the wheels had come of back in OAR, due to the Arabic Numerals. A base ten system could be explained away(ten fingers), the zero could be explained as having come from someone who was systematically thinking about the problem, but the name Arabic Numerals and the shape of the numbers couldn't. There is no Arabia on Safehold, thus nothing Arabic and seeing the same symbols used for each number or event those symbols used at all is impossible without deliberate help. It would be like seeing the Aztecs using the Latin alphabet and calling it the Latin alpha bet but never having met Europeans. Not possible.

Also there is no need for a special explanation for Clyntahn's delusions. Such insanity is quite common. A general example would be he beliefs of the more radical groups of religions other than yours. There are plenty just spend two minutes on google. Further Clyntahn can also just be a garden variety crazy person. People can be megalomaniacs without other explanations, like being part of a hundred year old conspiracy or having been created from a duplication of a partially destroyed brain.

Plus. If Clyhtahn was a three quarters of a millennium old PICA or PICAs, than he could be could be breaking down and actually be insane/malfunctioning.



Note: There could be a PICA, AI or very unlikely but possible someone in cryo-storage under the temple. But no-one else 'conscious' knows the truth.

Oh, and welcome to the forum and have a simulated beverage of your choice on me.

Undercover Fat Kid wrote:If he was, I don't think he'd have taken so long to get on top of why Charis seems to have such a sort coms loop, or where all these new ideas that keeps Charis ahead of the CoGA troops are coming from, and I doubt he would have been so cavalier about kicking off a war that could only have destabilized the geo political structure of the planet.

I'm curious about what would happen if someone's personality were placed in a Pica without their knowledge or even knowledge of PICAs. I mean, suppose you woke up, and discovered you were tougher, didn't need much sleep, and could move faster - but didn't know you were in a machine?

-- Bob G

jmseeley wrote:
I think he's pretty much what you see: An intelligent, ambitious, arrogant person who's so certain of the rightness of his cause that he's prepared to go to literally any extreme to win.

jms

Given the current "leadership" in the US, are you sure you didn't intend to post this to the political thread?

DDHvi wrote:
Given the current "leadership" in the US, are you sure you didn't intend to post this to the political thread?

Don't just limit yourself to the Un Serviceable Area, Look at the "potential alternatives". IMO there is nothing to choose between any of them.

The same applies wherever you have politicians.

"Those who think that politics are beneath them are doomed to be ruled by those with no such scruples" (Plato IIRC)

There is no need for Clynthan to be a PICA, nor reason to suppose he is one (in fact, it would create more problem to justify he is one than the fact that he is just a regular basic human being). Furthermore, there are passages when he is clearly described as being human: when he gets in one of his rage fits, he usually stops when he is winded out. He is also able to throw heavy weight under the right circonstances, but not heavy enough that it would need superhuman strength. And he usually ends up exhausted and lacking equilibrium.

He definitely is purely flesh and blood...