Why do pirates (privateers) not seem to carry any form of RD

I think it comes down to money and the rarity of running into a warship. Money has been covered. If you catch dozens of freighters, why would you think that the next is not going to be another easy freighter? Don't forget the discipline aspect as well. It takes discipline to continue to do something hard that shows no benefit. "Send a drone to check out the freighter." "Again? Boring." "Oh, look. Another freighter." After awhile, dropping the drone, using it and then recovery and refurbish it. Costs money for maintenance and spare parts. If you don't run into a warship over and over, then you would get tired of doing that. Keeping it up takes discipline and even military units have to work to keep that discipline. Yes, even when it may cost your life. Just look at how many people still smoke. Or eat unhealthly or... you get the picture.

Title says it. Handy things to have, but perhaps very spendy to have, get, keep, fix, reuse, maintain, store, etc.. I think pirates try to keep it as KISS as possible. Cheaper and easier the better?

However ... and I love good future possible story lines ... as things continue to come apart for a lot of systems, perhaps entire ships, personnal and drones will become available very cheap? Hummm.

HB of CJ (old coot) Is everybody saluting? I'm a big shot Junior Captain now sosss you all better ... salute! Speel chck not working. How do you speell procrument? I dunno.

SWM wrote:So the original question here is why pirates don't use RDs. I think this is related to a question that came up in an earlier thread--why don't early books show more people using RDs?

I believe there are no instances of RDs being used in a tactical situation to get close observation of enemy ships until Manticore introduces the Ghost Rider project. There are some instances of RDs being used for monitoring the edges of a system, but no instances of close-up monitoring by RDs. There are two possible answers: previous technology was not adequate for close-in tactical drones, or people just didn't think of it.

In either case, that answers why we have never seen pirates do it, either. None of those pirates had access to Manticoran technology.

This leaves open the possibility that future pirates may start using stealthed recon drones. But it might be too expensive for them.

I seem to recall that Thurston [Peoples Republic] thought about using them in his approach to Yeltsin, and Fillarati [Solarian] used them in his approach to Manticore [at least until they were all eliminated], so clearly they were available/in use in the standard pre-Ghost Rider equipment sets.

Remember piracy when all boils down is a business. A pirate ship has to purchase everything it needs to function and they cant get it from legitimate sources. Pirates need a constant supply of high value cargoes to stay in business. Unless you have ready access to a source to fence your cargoes and ships to. Your not going to get very much for your efforts. Typically when fencing stolen property your lucky to get 10-15% of the value of the item stolen. If you're part of a criminal enterprise with organized methods of disposal you might get lucky and receive at most 25% to if you are very, very lucky 30%.

Also where are you going to replace your consumables like missile reloads, reactor mass, food, spare parts ect, ect. What if your pirates ship need repairs after successfully fighting off a navy ship and you suffer damage that requires a shipyard to repair. Do you think a shipyard in not going to over charge you, for your repairs.

Kizarvexis wrote:-snip-"Send a drone to check out the freighter." "Again? Boring." "Oh, look. Another freighter." After awhile, dropping the drone, using it and then recovery and refurbish it. Costs money for maintenance and spare parts. If you don't run into a warship over and over, then you would get tired of doing that. Keeping it up takes discipline and even military units have to work to keep that discipline. -snip-

True, but the moment you catch a trolling warship or two over a few weeks (accounting for travel time to another system after running away from the first), I'd imagine a pirate crew would put up with a pirate skipper's foible of verifying every single target. Especially if the pirate skip in question eats the share of the recon drone/bullet.

Somewhere in uh, think it was HH3, or HH4, we get an explaination of how the SKM military broke down prize money, in relation to buying in captured vessels. If pirates operate anywhere near the same, the captain likely gets a considerably larger cut. Although probably at the risk of operating more like a Star Trek Klingon vessel, he's likely to be looking over his shoulder alot, in case of mutiny.

Thinking hard on it though, it's also quite likely pirate crews, regardless of how many warships you detected by insisting on the probe, would have the attitude of "well when was the last warship you helped us evade?"

saber964 wrote:-snip-
Also where are you going to replace your consumables like missile reloads, reactor mass, food, spare parts ect, ect. What if your pirates ship need repairs after successfully fighting off a navy ship and you suffer damage that requires a shipyard to repair. Do you think a shipyard in not going to over charge you, for your repairs.

You'd expend anywhere from one to perhaps five missiles on merchants, as warning shots, that seems to be fairly standard doctrine from all the anti-pirate patrols we read.

For other consumables, other than food & water, your primary consumption would just be reactor mass, like any other hyper ship. Repairs would also become incredibly rarely needed, because you can escape most fights before they even start.

It's arguable that for all the potential expenses and services you'd need to have available without rd's, would be saved by using them.

So it's almost a balance of smart versus stupid. Smarter pirates might use rds (assuming they even have them, this would really have to be something asked to Weber himself), the stupid pirates are the ones we get to read about who don't rely on anything except impeller strength & acceleration.

Somtaaw wrote:-snip-

True, but the moment you catch a trolling warship or two over a few weeks (accounting for travel time to another system after running away from the first), I'd imagine a pirate crew would put up with a pirate skipper's foible of verifying every single target. Especially if the pirate skip in question eats the share of the recon drone/bullet.

-snip-

Ah, but from the story perspective, we see the warship's side. The pirates side has not been shown. From things said by the warship officers, pirates can go months to YEARS before being caught, if they are caught at all. Even then, if caught by a Silly or Solly, they get imprisoned for a short while and then get released. The Manties, Andies and Havenites are harsher, but even the Manties and Andies regularly turn over pirates to Silly authorities in Silly space, so they still get the short imprisonment and release treatment as well. The Manties, and very possibly not all of them, have the 2nd strike your out policy, but I'm not sure the Andies do. So very easy to think it won't happen to me for Mr Pirate.

The Andies are not very happy with pirates.

Now there's a thought. We know that Kingsford et. al are discussing a strategy of commerce raiding. With the identified likelihood that most garden variety pirates DON'T use RDs, as soon as FF goes on the hunt, the jig will be up everywhere.

The moment that they encounter a Roland or two escorting a freighter convey, I'd think. Because the SLN ships aren't even going to get within range and do anything useful UNLESS they use RDs, and once that happens, they have to close on and kill the Rolands, or the whole arrogant strategy is revealed.

Yes/no/maybe?

SharkHunter wrote:Because the SLN ships aren't even going to get within range and do anything useful UNLESS they use RDs, and once that happens, they have to close on and kill the Rolands, or the whole arrogant strategy is revealed.

Yes/no/maybe?

People will figure out that the SLN has some issues with Manticore? Really? Could this be related to the fleet that got all blowed up at Manticore? Do you think this is a secret?

SharkHunter wrote:Now there's a thought. We know that Kingsford et. al are discussing a strategy of commerce raiding. With the identified likelihood that most garden variety pirates DON'T use RDs, as soon as FF goes on the hunt, the jig will be up everywhere.

The moment that they encounter a Roland or two escorting a freighter convey, I'd think. Because the SLN ships aren't even going to get within range and do anything useful UNLESS they use RDs, and once that happens, they have to close on and kill the Rolands, or the whole arrogant strategy is revealed.

Yes/no/maybe?

I think you are under the mistaken impression that the commerce raiding will be disguised as common piracy. Why would you think that? There is no reason for the SLN to pretend to be pirates. They will be out raiding, openly.