HFQ Offical Snippet #18

Castenea wrote:I think if the Harchong army was largely if not entirely impressed from only a few areas those areas may have trouble planting and harvesting crops for a few years. Depending on which source you read Germany was in famine in 1918 due to either a labor shortage or lack of fertilizer. Canada, US, and Australia were also suffering from a lack of farm labor in 1944, although they solved it by offering POWs the choice of working on farms with light (by some accounts none) supervision, or sitting in camps under tighter supervision.

I agree, there might be local problems. And in a protacted war scenario, wide-spread famine is a possibility. However, the level of mobilisation of the CoGA realms is probably not par to that of WW1 participants. For a famine, there'd have to be failed crops and bad harvests due to protacted bad weather or due to serious bottlenecks in civilian labor (e.g. a major flue epidemic ). While this might happen, I don't think it's that likely. More relevant are probably bottlenecks in transport capacity - and that might very well lead to more localized famine, e.g. in the Temple Lands or in the rear areas of the CoGA armies...
BTW: We don't have indications that the "mighty host" really was impressed in such a detrimental way.

lyonheart wrote:Hi JeffEngel,

This post is getting way too long!

I've detailed my thoughts on Silkiah's liberation years ago on previous threads, but we still don't know that much, not even the Grand Duke's name.

However he's been evidently tolerant of reformists besides the 'smuggling' that has benefited Silkiah's economy, and despite the inquisition's crackdown, there's been no word of eliminating or replacing him either, which implies he managed the above through sheer ignorance or incompetence since he or his father was appointed 27-28 years ago in 969 YoG.

Simple popularity, the legitimacy provided by constitutional government and the rule of law, and absence of critical need to replace him can account for that. Before the Sword of Schueler, Silkiahan and Siddarmarkian smuggling was tolerated because it was needed to make the mainland economy run. After it, Silkiah has been kept in bounds through fear. Even Clyntahn won't crush people he can intimidate well enough, and deposing monarchs would be an upsetting precedent for too many other much more important realms.

It may be he's in as much control of Silkiah as the Harchong emperor is of that empire, so its his ministers that actually have quietly supported these policies, covered by the corruption that's so systemic of the continental nations, too busy with their ill gotten gains to notice or care about any reformist rumblings that are discrete to start with.

We've got word from RFC to support a rosier view of Silkiah's government than that. From viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6148&p=157924&hilit=Silkiah#p157924

Silkiah was thoroughly corrupted by the Siddarmarkian example and rejected the Desnairian model. That is, the Grand Duchy has a constitution which limits the arbitrary powers of the aristocracy and enshrines the rule of law. This is one reason why Silkiah's economy has done as well as it's done.

In effect, culturally and politically, Silkiah is almost a demilitarized portion of Siddarmark, paying tributes to Desnair and the Temple Lands. It's an exaggeration, of course, but given its druthers, Silkiah would be Siddarmark's next province or at least junior partner.

OTOH, he might be popular because he ruled with such a wise light hand which the people know could have been far worse, given what they see in Desnar and Dohlar etc.

Or Harchong, the Temple Lands, the Border States... And I think you may be selling Dohlar short too. From the same RFC post:

By the same token, if you take a close look at Dohlar, you'll see that it falls into a sort of middle ground between the "standard" aristocratic model and the Charisian/Siddarmarkian model. The Dohlaran legal code is written and based upon both precedent and acts of Parliament, in addition to royal decrees, but it is also closer to that of Corisande, perhaps, than to that of Charis in that the great nobles' ability to circumvent the law undercuts much of the advantage of having a written law code in the first place. Nonetheless, the predictability of law and regulation in Dohlar explains the fact that even a relatively inept ruler like King Rahnyld could entertain the notion of cutting himself into a part of the Charisians' steadily growing wealth and power.

If Rahnyld were a bit brighter or if his ambitions leaned toward reform rather than commercial aggrandizement, he could have been a mainland King Silas or Queen Sharleyan. Dohlar's socially ready to move in that direction, given some pushing - if not for aristocratic inertia, a king who's a bit of a dweeb, and the Temple's likely reaction to a mainland Charis in addition to Siddarmark.

But with an aristocracy that's not so resistant to trade and doesn't have the horse and chivalry fetish of Desnair, and with the Temple's power waning, I do think Dohlar can make a soft landing of its surrender and turn into a genuine law-governed society with vigorous industry and trade. The needs of the Jihad and the easing of the Proscriptions are already turning it into a little dynamo.

...Turning publicly avowed enemies into quiet friends and allies is the real potential opportunity involved, which might as you say be a real encouragement to Dohlar, when the time comes to ditch the king and choose a regency that might include both Thirsk and Ahlverez, that accepts the minimal alliance demands; ending the inquisition and serfdom, religious toleration, etc.

L

Gorjah of Tarot betrayed treaties with Charis and participated in the same multipower attack on it as Dohlar did, out of irritation with those treaties, the moral and financial pull the Church had over him, and the prospect of a share of Charis' wealth. Rahnyld's nation has been in the fight a lot longer precisely and merely because it's on the mainland (the far side of it, even) and not an island Charis' navy can isolate.

Gorjah is now one of the highest nobles in the Empire, secure still on his throne, and leading a state that's actually doing better than it did before Armageddon Reef. For that matter, Cayleb as a liege lord is a whole lot more reliable, honorable, honest, and light-handed than the Church was.

Heck, after being the mastermind behind the early stages of the attack on Charis, and the longest running island enemy, Prince Hector of Corisande would have gotten a decent deal out of Cayleb.

Why do you suppose Rahnyld has to end up worse off than Gorjah? I'll allow that he's probably not as smart as Gorjah, and doesn't have an Out Islander's more detached view of the Temple. But he's also had a lot longer to have his nose rubbed in the fact that he's got as much respect and consideration for himself, his throne, or his people from the Temple as a Harchong serf has from his landowner. So I wouldn't be surprised if he's got the wit, finally, to say "screw this, I'm outta here!" about as soon as he can break off from the Temple, though he may have to have the very idea spoon-fed to him.

Hi JeffEngel,

A couple of things to respond to... It's hard to say what sort of deal Hector could have gotten out of Caleb, had he not been murdered. But I dont think it would have been good for Hector. Part of the reason that Nahrman and Gorjah came out as well as they did was their attitudes toward Cayleb and Charis following their defeat which made it possible to establish relationships of trust.

Hector, on the other hand never changed his tune at all. Cayleb had no intent of leaving him upon his throne. In fact he would have been lucky to avoid a scaffold and a headsman.

I will agree with you about Raynalhd, however. If he can be neutralized and gotten out on the war, there is no particular need to replace him. While he does need to be subjegated short term, once the war is over, Dohlar is too far from the EOC to become a province or client state of the EOC. Offer them a favored trade status and mutual defense agreement and let Dohlar go its own way.

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi JeffEngel,

A couple of things to respond to... It's hard to say what sort of deal Hector could have gotten out of Caleb, had he not been murdered. But I dont think it would have been good for Hector. Part of the reason that Nahrman and Gorjah came out as well as they did was their attitudes toward Cayleb and Charis following their defeat which made it possible to establish relationships of trust.

Hector, on the other hand never changed his tune at all. Cayleb had no intent of leaving him upon his throne. In fact he would have been lucky to avoid a scaffold and a headsman.

I'd have to look it up, but I think a couple of places have had it Cayleb had in mind being kept in comfortable and well-secured exile for Hector. But I wasn't bringing that up as a model for Rahnyld, but rather an example of how not-too-terrible the throne of Charis is prepared to be to someone who was a whole lot nastier for a whole lot longer to Charis than Rahnyld has been. The closer comparison for Rahnyld, in terms of how bad he's been to Charis on what basis, is Gorjah. Even then, Gorjah betrayed an actual treaty; Dohlar never had that with Charis. But mercy to Gorjah is a lot easier too when the ICN is always going to have Tarot under effective control. Going back on a peace agreement, sadly, will be a lot more practical for Dohlar.

I will agree with you about Raynalhd, however. If he can be neutralized and gotten out on the war, there is no particular need to replace him. While he does need to be subjegated short term, once the war is over, Dohlar is too far from the EOC to become a province or client state of the EOC. Offer them a favored trade status and mutual defense agreement and let Dohlar go its own way.

Don

Yep. The Empire of Charis has pretty nearly reached its natural borders. Bringing in the Duchy of Faros, Hammer Island, and the Raven Lands would be about it; possibly colonizing the Barren Lands and Armageddon Reef down the line if one felt the pressure to expand. But the mainland isn't naturally more than customers, friends and allies - and here's to that happy time when they can be all that again.

When Charis is still getting to that happy day, when Dohlar and Harchong still need to be kept tabs on, keeping Charisian claim on some or all of the islands in the Gulf of Dohlar may be appropriate. Think British possession of Gibraltar or Malta that way.

n7axw wrote:Hi JeffEngel,

A couple of things to respond to... It's hard to say what sort of deal Hector could have gotten out of Caleb, had he not been murdered. But I dont think it would have been good for Hector. Part of the reason that Nahrman and Gorjah came out as well as they did was their attitudes toward Cayleb and Charis following their defeat which made it possible to establish relationships of trust.

Hector, on the other hand never changed his tune at all. Cayleb had no intent of leaving him upon his throne. In fact he would have been lucky to avoid a scaffold and a headsman.

I will agree with you about Raynalhd, however. If he can be neutralized and gotten out on the war, there is no particular need to replace him. While he does need to be subjegated short term, once the war is over, Dohlar is too far from the EOC to become a province or client state of the EOC. Offer them a favored trade status and mutual defense agreement and let Dohlar go its own way.

Don

The impression that I got from what RFC wrote was that even if Hector had agreed some sort of a deal with Cayleb &/or Sharleyan, he had no intention whatsoever of keeping it. He would have taken the first decent opportunity that came along to stab them in the back – quite possibly literally as well as metaphorically.

Although Cayleb did not actually arrange for Hector's assassination, I would not be surprised if he heaved a private sigh of relief when it happened. Of all the rulers outside the Temple Lands, Hector was the one who truly lacked a conscience, and believed that the end justified the means. Truth and honour were minor concepts in comparison to his desires. For him, as Stalin said, "Promises are like pie-crust, made to be broken."

The thing with Hector is that Caleb knows his actual attitude. Caleb and Merlin have been using snarcs to listen in on his conferences with his advisors right before he was assassinated. And knowing that, he certainly couldn't be left anywhere near a throne.

Cayleb did have a conversation with Merlin suggesting the relocation of Hector and his family. That was before the war, however. There certainly wouldn't have been anything in Hector's attitude when he sued for peace to suggest clemency as an appropriate response to his throwing in the towel.

IIRC, when Cayleb discussed this with Daivyn and Irys, he did say rather candidly that although he did not have Hector murdered, the result of a peace negotiation could well have turned out as bad.

Don

JeffEngel wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi ChrisD,

I find it fascinating that HMS Delthak was still referred to as a 22 gun ship in October's chapter 11, when it was really only an 18 gun ship!

L

There's a small memorial up front: "Four More Guns - Gone but not Forgotten. Fire on, iron brothers, wherever you may be!"

Deltek received the1st guns but there are 28 Deltek II's that are about to enter the fray where and when will they be bought into action?

In one of the snippets, we have the "cities" class ironclads off the coast of Desnair dealing with the privateer problem. IIRC, that met that Sharpfield was going to have to wait on the next group of ironclads which would make their arrival roughly the same time as the King Haarahlds.

Don

n7axw wrote:In one of the snippets, we have the "cities" class ironclads off the coast of Desnair dealing with the privateer problem. IIRC, that met that Sharpfield was going to have to wait on the next group of ironclads which would make their arrival roughly the same time as the King Haarahlds.

Don

Err are you sure it's a snippet and not a post, Don? Could you remind me of the number?

Randomiser wrote:

n7axw wrote:In one of the snippets, we have the "cities" class ironclads off the coast of Desnair dealing with the privateer problem. IIRC, that met that Sharpfield was going to have to wait on the next group of ironclads which would make their arrival roughly the same time as the King Haarahlds.

Don

Err are you sure it's a snippet and not a post, Don? Could you remind me of the number?

Try snippet 8. Reality contrasted a bit with my meemory, but that's the one.

Don