Beyond "A RISING THUNDER" (v.13 in Honorverse series)

Can we speculate about what will be resolved or remain to be resolved, in the forthcoming final (2/?) books of the Honor Harrington arc?

Further to my post about speculating, does RFC have any budding author in mind to carry on the good fight and go beyond the end of the Honor Harrington arc?

That's a good question. I agree a lot of "YA" books are well written, with intriguing story plots, that adults would also enjoy. Maybe not a lot of hardcore violence (not a given, though) or steamy sex perhaps; but I'm not sure that's *necessary* to being a good, interesting story.

For that matter, when some "YA" novels are made into movies (eg The Twilight Saga, the Divergent Series, Harry Potter); and even some comics, I saw plenty of middle aged and older adults in the audience... ...not all as families, either.

Belial666 wrote:

2016, maybe.

Whoever worships Yog Sothoth around here better line up the right sacrifices for a Teleport Through Time spell and get us a future copy ASAP.

I've often wondered if maybe RFC would/could make extra money just by offering e-ARC's himself, right on his website, as soon as he's made his electronic submission to the publisher? After all, he's posting snippets here, and actual *chapters* elsewhere, so it wouldn't appear his contract with the publisher prohibits it; unless it prohibits "publishing" it in it's entirety (mmm... wonder if maybe doing it in 2 or more "segments" would get around such a prohibition, LOL ?).

He could process payments through PayPal or something similar. Most of us are going to buy a hardcopy anyway at some point, so it's not like the publisher is going to lose substantially. Also, I've often questioned the *price* of e-ARCs. Baen charges $25 for an electronic manuscript usually rife with grammar, syntax, and other kinds of errors (some of which don't even get corrected when the hardcopy version is printed). That's about the price of the hardcover copy. And in that condition? One has got to wonder about some of those editors employed by the publisher, if they let that through. I would think that maybe $10-15 would be much more reasonable for an "unproofed" copy. I suspect the relatively high cost versus the quality of the manuscript is why copies of e-ARC's appear on many file sharing sites as soon as they become available for purchase. While some folks will pirate just for the sake of pirating, most probably wouldn't if they felt the product was worth the price. Or if we thought the creator of the work was getting most of the money compared to the publishing house. Hard copy is different, paper, ink, and printing equipment cost money; but a megabyte of storage online is dirt cheap; and electronic offerings should reflect that, IMHO. Generally, Baen shows that, but not in the case of e-ARC's.

Indeed, if RFC sold the e-ARC's *before* sending them in, we could even have a thread for each book here noting errors that could be corrected prior to submission.

Just a thought.

DW is a writer, not a publisher or bookseller.
He usually leaves Selling to those specialists.
Why should he take writing time to try to sell stuff?

HTM

OrlandoNative wrote:
I've often wondered if maybe RFC would/could make extra money just by offering e-ARC's himself, right on his website, as soon as he's made his electronic submission to the publisher? After all, he's posting snippets here, and actual *chapters* elsewhere, so it wouldn't appear his contract with the publisher prohibits it; unless it prohibits "publishing" it in it's entirety (mmm... wonder if maybe doing it in 2 or more "segments" would get around such a prohibition, LOL ?).

He could process payments through PayPal or something similar. Most of us are going to buy a hardcopy anyway at some point, so it's not like the publisher is going to lose substantially. Also, I've often questioned the *price* of e-ARCs. Baen charges $25 for an electronic manuscript usually rife with grammar, syntax, and other kinds of errors (some of which don't even get corrected when the hardcopy version is printed). That's about the price of the hardcover copy. And in that condition? One has got to wonder about some of those editors employed by the publisher, if they let that through. I would think that maybe $10-15 would be much more reasonable for an "unproofed" copy. I suspect the relatively high cost versus the quality of the manuscript is why copies of e-ARC's appear on many file sharing sites as soon as they become available for purchase. While some folks will pirate just for the sake of pirating, most probably wouldn't if they felt the product was worth the price. Or if we thought the creator of the work was getting most of the money compared to the publishing house. Hard copy is different, paper, ink, and printing equipment cost money; but a megabyte of storage online is dirt cheap; and electronic offerings should reflect that, IMHO. Generally, Baen shows that, but not in the case of e-ARC's.

Indeed, if RFC sold the e-ARC's *before* sending them in, we could even have a thread for each book here noting errors that could be corrected prior to submission.

Just a thought.

OrlandoNative wrote:I've often wondered if maybe RFC would/could make extra money just by offering e-ARC's himself, right on his website, as soon as he's made his electronic submission to the publisher? After all, he's posting snippets here, and actual *chapters* elsewhere, so it wouldn't appear his contract with the publisher prohibits it; unless it prohibits "publishing" it in it's entirety (mmm... wonder if maybe doing it in 2 or more "segments" would get around such a prohibition, LOL ?).

He could process payments through PayPal or something similar. Most of us are going to buy a hardcopy anyway at some point, so it's not like the publisher is going to lose substantially. Also, I've often questioned the *price* of e-ARCs. Baen charges $25 for an electronic manuscript usually rife with grammar, syntax, and other kinds of errors (some of which don't even get corrected when the hardcopy version is printed). That's about the price of the hardcover copy. And in that condition? One has got to wonder about some of those editors employed by the publisher, if they let that through. I would think that maybe $10-15 would be much more reasonable for an "unproofed" copy. I suspect the relatively high cost versus the quality of the manuscript is why copies of e-ARC's appear on many file sharing sites as soon as they become available for purchase. While some folks will pirate just for the sake of pirating, most probably wouldn't if they felt the product was worth the price. Or if we thought the creator of the work was getting most of the money compared to the publishing house. Hard copy is different, paper, ink, and printing equipment cost money; but a megabyte of storage online is dirt cheap; and electronic offerings should reflect that, IMHO. Generally, Baen shows that, but not in the case of e-ARC's.

Indeed, if RFC sold the e-ARC's *before* sending them in, we could even have a thread for each book here noting errors that could be corrected prior to submission.

Just a thought.

I don't know about all that. It does seem to be a slap in the face to Baen, who are the ones paying Mr. Weber to construct these stories. I think RFC has a big enough fan base to self publish if he wanted to, but I feel that he should keep with the practices that are in place, so that Baen has enough money to find the next Epic Space Opera and bring it to us.

On the other hand, I have long been in the camp of RFC and/or Baen hiring four or five of the more detail oriented (a.k.a. anal retentive) of us to proof read for errors that would slip by an editor who is not a rabid fan of the series. Most of us would be willing to sign heavy non disclosure agreements and would probably be happy to do it for not much more than a copy of the finished book.

OrlandoNative wrote:I've often wondered if maybe RFC would/could make extra money just by offering e-ARC's himself, right on his website, as soon as he's made his electronic submission to the publisher? After all, he's posting snippets here, and actual *chapters* elsewhere, so it wouldn't appear his contract with the publisher prohibits it; unless it prohibits "publishing" it in it's entirety (mmm... wonder if maybe doing it in 2 or more "segments" would get around such a prohibition, LOL ?).

He could process payments through PayPal or something similar. Most of us are going to buy a hardcopy anyway at some point, so it's not like the publisher is going to lose substantially. Also, I've often questioned the *price* of e-ARCs. Baen charges $25 for an electronic manuscript usually rife with grammar, syntax, and other kinds of errors (some of which don't even get corrected when the hardcopy version is printed). That's about the price of the hardcover copy. And in that condition? One has got to wonder about some of those editors employed by the publisher, if they let that through. I would think that maybe $10-15 would be much more reasonable for an "unproofed" copy. I suspect the relatively high cost versus the quality of the manuscript is why copies of e-ARC's appear on many file sharing sites as soon as they become available for purchase. While some folks will pirate just for the sake of pirating, most probably wouldn't if they felt the product was worth the price. Or if we thought the creator of the work was getting most of the money compared to the publishing house. Hard copy is different, paper, ink, and printing equipment cost money; but a megabyte of storage online is dirt cheap; and electronic offerings should reflect that, IMHO. Generally, Baen shows that, but not in the case of e-ARC's.

Indeed, if RFC sold the e-ARC's *before* sending them in, we could even have a thread for each book here noting errors that could be corrected prior to submission.

Just a thought.

Baen charges only $15.00 for E-ARCs, not $25.00 (all prices in US dollars) on the Baen Ebooks website.

When Jim Baen first came up with the idea of offering E-ARCs to anyone who wanted to purchase them, he posted it on Baen's Bar. The price point he was considering was lower than the current $15.00 (IIRC $10.00 or thereabouts), but was convinced by other posters on the Bar that $15.00 was a fair price.

And when Baen titles went into the Amazon Kindle store, the price of E-ARCs (which have only ever been available at the Baen Ebooks website) did not change, although the cost of ebooks offered at the web store rose to meet the requirements of having Baen titles carried by Amazon.

As far as correcting errors before publication (editing) I suggest reading Eric Flint's experience with using non-professional (free) editors: Prime Palaver #5 Letters to the Librarian.

For all the letters that Eric Flint wrote on the Baen Free Library: Prime Palaver

Because it wouldn't take any time. He's already got the manuscript in electronic form, he's told us that himself in other threads; so it's not like there's any additional transcription to be done. Besides, he wouldn't have to format a page here himself, one of the admins or moderators could. And he has a online "store", so there's already a payment method in place.

If we were talking about something requiring physical printing, packaging, shipping, etc, I'd agree with you. But this is no longer the 19th century. We're not limited here to Safehold-like restrictions.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:DW is a writer, not a publisher or bookseller.
He usually leaves Selling to those specialists.
Why should he take writing time to try to sell stuff?

HTM

OrlandoNative wrote:
I've often wondered if maybe RFC would/could make extra money just by offering e-ARC's himself, right on his website, as soon as he's made his electronic submission to the publisher? After all, he's posting snippets here, and actual *chapters* elsewhere, so it wouldn't appear his contract with the publisher prohibits it; unless it prohibits "publishing" it in it's entirety (mmm... wonder if maybe doing it in 2 or more "segments" would get around such a prohibition, LOL ?).

He could process payments through PayPal or something similar. Most of us are going to buy a hardcopy anyway at some point, so it's not like the publisher is going to lose substantially. Also, I've often questioned the *price* of e-ARCs. Baen charges $25 for an electronic manuscript usually rife with grammar, syntax, and other kinds of errors (some of which don't even get corrected when the hardcopy version is printed). That's about the price of the hardcover copy. And in that condition? One has got to wonder about some of those editors employed by the publisher, if they let that through. I would think that maybe $10-15 would be much more reasonable for an "unproofed" copy. I suspect the relatively high cost versus the quality of the manuscript is why copies of e-ARC's appear on many file sharing sites as soon as they become available for purchase. While some folks will pirate just for the sake of pirating, most probably wouldn't if they felt the product was worth the price. Or if we thought the creator of the work was getting most of the money compared to the publishing house. Hard copy is different, paper, ink, and printing equipment cost money; but a megabyte of storage online is dirt cheap; and electronic offerings should reflect that, IMHO. Generally, Baen shows that, but not in the case of e-ARC's.

Indeed, if RFC sold the e-ARC's *before* sending them in, we could even have a thread for each book here noting errors that could be corrected prior to submission.

Just a thought.

crewdude48 wrote:I don't know about all that. It does seem to be a slap in the face to Baen, who are the ones paying Mr. Weber to construct these stories. I think RFC has a big enough fan base to self publish if he wanted to, but I feel that he should keep with the practices that are in place, so that Baen has enough money to find the next Epic Space Opera and bring it to us.

On the other hand, I have long been in the camp of RFC and/or Baen hiring four or five of the more detail oriented (a.k.a. anal retentive) of us to proof read for errors that would slip by an editor who is not a rabid fan of the series. Most of us would be willing to sign heavy non disclosure agreements and would probably be happy to do it for not much more than a copy of the finished book.

Maybe. But he's posting "snippets" here which will eventually encompass most, if not all, of the manuscript; and on another site he's posting entire chapters (I think now up through chapter 6; if I remember correctly). Putting the entire story (pre-proof version) for sale in his store isn't much more than a distinction without much of a difference; and with less wait time. Baen makes most of it's money on "proofed" hardcopy sales - hardcover, paperback, and the "official" ebooks; not the ARCs. Maybe they have some sort of "non-compete" clause in the writer's contracts, but if so one has to wonder about what we're seeing.

I do agree with your last paragraph, though. Considering what I've seen out of Baen editors so far, that would be a great idea.

Vince wrote:Baen charges only $15.00 for E-ARCs, not $25.00 (all prices in US dollars) on the Baen Ebooks website.

When Jim Baen first came up with the idea of offering E-ARCs to anyone who wanted to purchase them, he posted it on Baen's Bar. The price point he was considering was lower than the current $15.00 (IIRC $10.00 or thereabouts), but was convinced by other posters on the Bar that $15.00 was a fair price.

I'm not sure I'd agree with those other's logic. A bit of a premium maybe for early access, but it's got to be "tempered" with the fact it's littered with errors. I think I would have agreed more with a $10 cost.

Vince wrote:And when Baen titles went into the Amazon Kindle store, the price of E-ARCs (which have only ever been available at the Baen Ebooks website) did not change, although the cost of ebooks offered at the web store rose to meet the requirements of having Baen titles carried by Amazon.

Which is basically why I don't buy ebooks at Amazon, even though I shop for other things there.

Vince wrote:As far as correcting errors before publication (editing) I suggest reading Eric Flint's experience with using non-professional (free) editors: Prime Palaver #5 Letters to the Librarian.

For all the letters that Eric Flint wrote on the Baen Free Library: Prime Palaver

I read that years ago. But not everyone is good at spotting errors; and some folks are better at spotting certain types than others. The biggest problem I can see is mainly that there's not a "centralized place" where a group of volunteer editors could note errors and suggest changes. If each person sends an email, only they and the main editor know the contents. So there would be many, basically duplicated noted errors and corrections. One would need a forum for edits; perhaps one thread per manuscript, where folks finding errors could check and see if it had already been noticed before, and, if not, then post what they've found and any corrections. Even better would be a forum for the manuscript, and a thread for each chapter - that would keep things grouped together better for the main editor to incorporate into the base manuscript.

I suspect if Eric were willing to put some such protected forums on the Baen website with access limited to those volunteer editors, it would actually ease the load on the "professional" ones he pays.

Remember, this is the electronic age. Most problems have solutions, it's just that sometimes you have to think outside the box.