(SPOILERS) The solution to Baron Green Valley's logistic qua

Ah! Recall that some us believe BGV is headed further west with his vanguard. That vanguard containing only half of his arctic trained and equipped troops. That other half can shoot trough to Guarnak via the pass further east.

Mounting steel blades on those sleds will extend BGV's range using what supplies he has. That southern thrust will also clear a shorter route to resupply both BGV's deep thrust forces. That route is closer to Siddermark's canal system and by extension Charisian supply galleons.

Also, artillery mounted on steel bladed sleds can move quickly into position to fire on the GoGA defenders. Attacking directly accross the lake becomes much more feasible.

n7axw wrote:

Castenea wrote:Rather straight forward brute force solution to that, set up a gantry crane. Pick up the sled in front of on end of the locks, set it down on the other side. Take the crane down about the time spring thaw arrives. Supports for the gantry would be set on either side of the locks.

This kind of demonstrates that often where there is a will there is a way. One would still need a prevailing wind in the direction the supplies would need to go and haul them back with slow lizzards the other, or failing that use the carribou and slow lizzards both directions.

Of course, we really don't have any textev that BGV is having a problem at all... so all this could be a solution looking for a problem.

Don

n7axw wrote:This kind of demonstrates that often where there is a will there is a way. One would still need a prevailing wind in the direction the supplies would need to go and haul them back with slow lizzards the other, or failing that use the carribou and slow lizzards both directions.

A few random thoughts:

1) Summer-time canal traffic is powered by dragons on a "Mule Path;" Winter-time ice-rigger traffic doesn't need wind when a snow-lizard or reindeer can navigate the "Mule Path." Steel runners would still expand the tonnage that can be moved.

2) Whether the canal is full or drained isn't really important. I would probably be even better if there was less than a foot of water to freeze solid, since there would be no worries about falling through the ice.

3) If the steel runners were fixed in place of winter-time skis or wagon wheels in such a way that the could be lifted out of the way to resume more conventional suspension, worries about a dry canal or locks become a simple matter of raising the steel blades and/or building a ramp to the towpath or adjacent road.

4) Make sure the wagon/sled/barge is water-tight, and the same equipment can be used year round. Raise both blades and wheels, and you have a barge that can detour around damaged locks. Lower the steel blades and you've got a dismasted "Ice-rigger" that can be towed across/along any frozen surface. Lower a set of wheels/skis and you have a "land-barge" able to travel along high roads or back lanes as any other freight wagon might.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:This kind of demonstrates that often where there is a will there is a way. One would still need a prevailing wind in the direction the supplies would need to go and haul them back with slow lizzards the other, or failing that use the carribou and slow lizzards both directions.

A few random thoughts:

1) Summer-time canal traffic is powered by dragons on a "Mule Path;" Winter-time ice-rigger traffic doesn't need wind when a snow-lizard or reindeer can navigate the "Mule Path." Steel runners would still expand the tonnage that can be moved.

2) Whether the canal is full or drained isn't really important. I would probably be even better if there was less than a foot of water to freeze solid, since there would be no worries about falling through the ice.

3) If the steel runners were fixed in place of winter-time skis or wagon wheels in such a way that the could be lifted out of the way to resume more conventional suspension, worries about a dry canal or locks become a simple matter of raising the steel blades and/or building a ramp to the towpath or adjacent road.

4) Make sure the wagon/sled/barge is water-tight, and the same equipment can be used year round. Raise both blades and wheels, and you have a barge that can detour around damaged locks. Lower the steel blades and you've got a dismasted "Ice-rigger" that can be towed across/along any frozen surface. Lower a set of wheels/skis and you have a "land-barge" able to travel along high roads or back lanes as any other freight wagon might.

Hi Harold,

Some real good thoughts here. I really like the wagon/sled/barge. Your thought about about the water level makes sense. A potential question about it is a point raised up thread about the possibility of the canal filling with snow during storms.

I would suppose though that you would face the same issue with snow drifting across roads. So you end having to cope with the issue either way.

Don

I think the whole discussion overlooks the other component of winter weather, namely that (not so) fluffy white stuff called snow. Up here in Minnesota, most winters you would have to plow the lake before you could use an ice boat. And if you have a canal with low water level, that's just a ditch that will be full to the brim with drifted snow. Steel runners don't work well in snow, they just make it easier for your sleigh to sink in, you need a flat bottomed device like a toboggan.

Weird Harold wrote:
A few random thoughts:

1) Summer-time canal traffic is powered by dragons on a "Mule Path;" Winter-time ice-rigger traffic doesn't need wind when a snow-lizard or reindeer can navigate the "Mule Path." Steel runners would still expand the tonnage that can be moved.

2) Whether the canal is full or drained isn't really important. I would probably be even better if there was less than a foot of water to freeze solid, since there would be no worries about falling through the ice.

I recall reading somewhere that certain places in the arctic use (or used) ice roads in the winter. You level the snow, then pour multiple thin layers of water until the total thickness will bear the load. Each layer melts somewhat into the layer below it to make one solid mass. Of course in the spring you get mud, but that happens anyway. This would work anywhere that isn't too steep.

Yes. They are common in Canada though their seasons are shortening due to...well you know and I don't want to start that argument here! But, because of that and some other factors, airships are also being seriously looked at which might be something to add to the Safehold universe at some point! But that is for the other thread.

Anyway...Good info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_road and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibbitt_to ... inter_Road . There is also a reality show that is as stupid as most reality shows called "Ice Road Truckers" or something close to that. Pretty photography. Fake excitement in the main on the bits I've seen.

Further: As mentioned by a fellow Minnesotan (well I was born there and went to hs and undergrad, at least) ice roads pretty much require plows. How this would be managed is problematic at present unless land steam tractors are constructed. Altho a great scene might involve ice tractors plowing a lane across the tundra--or whatever flora lives around the Temple--leading a column for a winter invasion. Grand image, that!

DDHvi wrote:...

I recall reading somewhere that certain places in the arctic use (or used) ice roads in the winter. You level the snow, then pour multiple thin layers of water until the total thickness will bear the load. Each layer melts somewhat into the layer below it to make one solid mass. Of course in the spring you get mud, but that happens anyway. This would work anywhere that isn't too steep.

DennisLee wrote:Steel runners don't work well in snow, they just make it easier for your sleigh to sink in, you need a flat bottomed device like a toboggan.

You mean something like a flat-bottomed canal boat?

Weird Harold wrote:

DennisLee wrote:Steel runners don't work well in snow, they just make it easier for your sleigh to sink in, you need a flat bottomed device like a toboggan.

You mean something like a flat-bottomed canal boat?

The critical issue would be how wide the runners would be relative to the weight they carry, not whether or not they are steel. All steel does is make them more durable.

Don

Didn't RFC rebut (extinguish, belay) the "iceboats on canals" theory already, prior to LAMA?

AClone wrote:Didn't RFC rebut (extinguish, belay) the "iceboats on canals" theory already, prior to LAMA?

I believe he did. The sleigh with the steel runners has been shown. I believe bishop Cahnyr rode in one to Glacierheart.