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HFQ Offical Snippet #18

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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:18 am

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chrisd wrote:
tootall wrote:Getting an 18 meter elevation advantage may be trickier, when Delthak is normally at the local water level. How much range would they have against targets, say, up to 10m over Delthak?


And what are the chances that there are some 30-50 meter hills between water level and our target? Pretty good I'd think.
Any forward observer will have to be able to see both the target and the battery involved.


And, of course, those "inland" are in for one hell-of-a-shock when they find out the hard way that they re not out of range of HMS Delthak's new guns.

In a way it's a shme that they do not have more elevation to enable them to shoot over any intervening hills, though. I suppose that there is a possibility, as used by RN "Pre-dreadnaughts" during WW1 of "heeling" the ship for increased elevation when used in a shore bombardment role.

given the widths of the Delthak, I don't think this is going to be particularly helpful, and due to the low freeboard, probably dangerous as hell.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by EdThomas   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:34 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
chrisd wrote:Getting an 18 meter elevation advantage may be trickier, when Delthak is normally at the local water level. How much range would they have against targets, say, up to 10m over Delthak?


And what are the chances that there are some 30-50 meter hills between water level and our target? Pretty good I'd think.
Any forward observer will have to be able to see both the target and the battery involved.


And, of course, those "inland" are in for one hell-of-a-shock when they find out the hard way that they re not out of range of HMS Delthak's new guns.

In a way it's a shme that they do not have more elevation to enable them to shoot over any intervening hills, though. I suppose that there is a possibility, as used by RN "Pre-dreadnaughts" during WW1 of "heeling" the ship for increased elevation when used in a shore bombardment role.

given the widths of the Delthak, I don't think this is going to be particularly helpful, and due to the low freeboard, probably dangerous as hell.[/quote]
Remember - Delthak can move north and south on the river to make targets originally screened by hills open to interdiction
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:21 am

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chrisd wrote:Getting an 18 meter elevation advantage may be trickier, when Delthak is normally at the local water level. How much range would they have against targets, say, up to 10m over Delthak?


And what are the chances that there are some 30-50 meter hills between water level and our target? Pretty good I'd think.
Any forward observer will have to be able to see both the target and the battery involved.


And, of course, those "inland" are in for one hell-of-a-shock when they find out the hard way that they re not out of range of HMS Delthak's new guns.

In a way it's a shame that they do not have more elevation to enable them to shoot over any intervening hills, though. I suppose that there is a possibility, as used by RN "Pre-dreadnaughts" during WW1 of "heeling" the ship for increased elevation when used in a shore bombardment role.[/quote]
fallsfromtrees wrote:given the widths of the Delthak, I don't think this is going to be particularly helpful, and due to the low freeboard, probably dangerous as hell.
EdThomas wrote:Remember - Delthak can move north and south on the river to make targets originally screened by hills open to interdiction

Sure, but the suggestion was heeling the Delthak's to get more range, and I suggested that the low freeboard made this a bad idea.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by chrisd   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:56 am

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EdThomas wrote:
fallsfromtrees wrote:
And, of course, those "inland" are in for one hell-of-a-shock when they find out the hard way that they re not out of range of HMS Delthak's new guns.

In a way it's a shme that they do not have more elevation to enable them to shoot over any intervening hills, though. I suppose that there is a possibility, as used by RN "Pre-dreadnaughts" during WW1 of "heeling" the ship for increased elevation when used in a shore bombardment role.

given the widths of the Delthak, I don't think this is going to be particularly helpful, and due to the low freeboard, probably dangerous as hell.

Remember - Delthak can move north and south on the river to make targets originally screened by hills open to interdiction[/quote]

Even 5º of heel could be significant, especially if properly prepared for in a shore bombardment situation.

IIRC the "offshore guns" will not be needed and the "Passage Port Covers" could be fitted for the duration of the shoot to mitigate any adverse effects of the heeling.
I do not think from the evidence presented that the "Delthaks' " stability limits will be approached by a restricted heel, either.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by n7axw   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:12 am

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EdThomas wrote:Ruminations and Ramblings
At Trevyr, Rychter appears to have placed his defensive positions in a line on both sides of the river. Might this mean he doesn't realize how small EH's forces are? I'm assuming (that nasty word again! :D ) EH doesn't have sufficient troops to advance up both sides of the river.
Question - Is Rychter trying to defend both the Seridahn and the Canal? Answer - Both with the Canal having a higher priority because it leads directly into the heart of Dohlar.

He's pulled back 20 miles and set up what he believes to be a strong blocking position on the river. Is he deployed on both sides of the river? A conservative position would be for him to concede the eastern shore because the possibility still exists the ironclad could breakthrough and cut the east bank off. I think he's hedging his bets on the battery on the bluff being able to stop the ironclad. My SWAG is the power of the new guns and brown powdder will devastate the battery and the morale of his forces. (Maybe God really is on the side of the Heretics!

The eastern shore. - Rychter knows the forces that shattered the Desnairian and Dohlaran forces sent againt Fort Tairys are still there. We don't know how much he knows but it seems reasonable to assume :) he has some sort of cavalry screen to the east to give him warning if those forces are coming into his area.
We have no idea if DE has been in communication with EH. My SWAG is DE is headed west and would have made some effort to communicate with EH. Obvious place to send couriers is Thesmar but he does have mounted infantry which will allow him to probe to west and the Seridahn. Possible scenario here would be for Hanth to provide the anvil south and west across the canal for DE's hammer coming in from the east to crush Rychter.

Mortars - 1. If EH can get his additional support platoons or a portion thereof, mounted and working with his scout/snipers, he may be able to seriously disrupt, or possibly shut down Rychter's supply route.
2. The mortars are a strong defensive, and offensive weapon weapon that will serve as a force multiplier for EH.

Your thoughts?


I think that it depends on whether or not he defends Evyrtyn. As Thirsk pointed out, what he really should do is retreat back into Dohlar and towards remaining strength of the Dohlaran Army. Evyrtyn is a supply head no longer serving a useful purpose. It's true that Ahlverez is out there somewhere but Rychtyr has to assume that hostile forces are between him and Ahlverez which means that for all practical intents and purposes Ahlverez is no longer there to be supplied either.

The question is "does Rychtyr have the moral courage to take his inquisitor aside and explain all of that to him and then act accordingly?" The answer he gives to that question will determine whether or not he survives with his army intact.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by Louis R   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:37 pm

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i'd say it depends even more on his orders. mind you, now that the Army of Justice is out of the picture those are likely to be rather more intelligent than certain parties in Zion might really prefer. nonetheless, Gorath knows exactly how Clyntahn is going to respond to them being bounced completely out of Siddarmark, which would be why they moved to reinforce Rychter instead of telling him to fall back - and BGV thought that they might even succeed in holding the whole canal. i doubt that Rychter has been told to hold at all costs, but his orders are certainly to hold his position. and, possibly, to ensure he holds long enough to recover as many as possible of Ahlverez's forces, at the least.

the available maps show no terrain details west of the Seridahn, but it's not unlikely that there are no good blocking positions between Evyrtyn and the border. if that's the case, cutting Rychter's lines will be harder than it sounds - the Alliance forces west of the river will have to beat the Dohlarans in an open-field engagement. doable, but challenging with the forces available.

n7axw wrote:
EdThomas wrote:Ruminations and Ramblings
At Trevyr, Rychter appears to have placed his defensive positions in a line on both sides of the river. Might this mean he doesn't realize how small EH's forces are? I'm assuming (that nasty word again! :D ) EH doesn't have sufficient troops to advance up both sides of the river.
Question - Is Rychter trying to defend both the Seridahn and the Canal? Answer - Both with the Canal having a higher priority because it leads directly into the heart of Dohlar.

He's pulled back 20 miles and set up what he believes to be a strong blocking position on the river. Is he deployed on both sides of the river? A conservative position would be for him to concede the eastern shore because the possibility still exists the ironclad could breakthrough and cut the east bank off. I think he's hedging his bets on the battery on the bluff being able to stop the ironclad. My SWAG is the power of the new guns and brown powdder will devastate the battery and the morale of his forces. (Maybe God really is on the side of the Heretics!

The eastern shore. - Rychter knows the forces that shattered the Desnairian and Dohlaran forces sent againt Fort Tairys are still there. We don't know how much he knows but it seems reasonable to assume :) he has some sort of cavalry screen to the east to give him warning if those forces are coming into his area.
We have no idea if DE has been in communication with EH. My SWAG is DE is headed west and would have made some effort to communicate with EH. Obvious place to send couriers is Thesmar but he does have mounted infantry which will allow him to probe to west and the Seridahn. Possible scenario here would be for Hanth to provide the anvil south and west across the canal for DE's hammer coming in from the east to crush Rychter.

Mortars - 1. If EH can get his additional support platoons or a portion thereof, mounted and working with his scout/snipers, he may be able to seriously disrupt, or possibly shut down Rychter's supply route.
2. The mortars are a strong defensive, and offensive weapon weapon that will serve as a force multiplier for EH.

Your thoughts?


I think that it depends on whether or not he defends Evyrtyn. As Thirsk pointed out, what he really should do is retreat back into Dohlar and towards remaining strength of the Dohlaran Army. Evyrtyn is a supply head no longer serving a useful purpose. It's true that Ahlverez is out there somewhere but Rychtyr has to assume that hostile forces are between him and Ahlverez which means that for all practical intents and purposes Ahlverez is no longer there to be supplied either.

The question is "does Rychtyr have the moral courage to take his inquisitor aside and explain all of that to him and then act accordingly?" The answer he gives to that question will determine whether or not he survives with his army intact.

Don
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by n7axw   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:11 pm

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I am presuming that either DE or EHM is moving expeditiously to reinforce Hanth. If that is true, Ahlverez is cut off from Evrytyn with no way to get there without being intercepted by forces both better armed and better supplied than he is. His only real chance is to cross the Sheridan above Thesmar and proceed to Dohlar by a different route.

And if the allies have given any priority to pursuit, Ahlverez's chances of getting away drop pretty drasticly, as has been pointed out before. A fairly reasonable case can be made that the allies have more urgent things to do than pursue Ahlverez. Think Kaitswryth and the Harchongese.

Given those assumptions, Evrytyn loses its strategic value as a supply head and should be abandoned.

We shall see...

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by Randomiser   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:23 pm

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Evrytyn is just about the only foothold the Dohlaran/Desnairian forces have left in Siddarmark. It is at the end of a good supply route and could make a reasonable bridgehead for another invading army once the Harchongese start to distract the ICA somewhat. Having a force there means that the ICA have to leave at least some troops to interdict them. I think the Temple will want that. And look at the other side. The canal is a very nice tempting route into Dohlar so the RDA have to interdict it at some point which may as well be Evrytyn, especially if there are few natural choke points further back. Or they have to destroy its usefulness to the ICA by blowing a lot of locks which would also prevent the RDA from using it as a supply route at a later time, which I doubt would please the Temple. I don't think the RDA has much choice but try to hold Evrytyn.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by jmseeley   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:55 pm

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Randomiser wrote:Evrytyn is just about the only foothold the Dohlaran/Desnairian forces have left in Siddarmark. It is at the end of a good supply route and could make a reasonable bridgehead for another invading army once the Harchongese start to distract the ICA somewhat. Having a force there means that the ICA have to leave at least some troops to interdict them. I think the Temple will want that. And look at the other side. The canal is a very nice tempting route into Dohlar so the RDA have to interdict it at some point which may as well be Evrytyn, especially if there are few natural choke points further back. Or they have to destroy its usefulness to the ICA by blowing a lot of locks which would also prevent the RDA from using it as a supply route at a later time, which I doubt would please the Temple. I don't think the RDA has much choice but try to hold Evrytyn.


If Dohlar loses Evrytyn, are there any forces left to keep Alliance forces from rolling all the way to Dairnyth? If I recall, that's currently Kaitswyrth's main supply port, at least until more of the Northern canal system is repaired. Hanth doesn't have enough forces to go all the way, but Eastshare probably does. That could logistically kneecap the AoG in Cliff Peak and Westmarch.

jms
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #18
Post by n7axw   » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:21 pm

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Randomiser wrote:Evrytyn is just about the only foothold the Dohlaran/Desnairian forces have left in Siddarmark. It is at the end of a good supply route and could make a reasonable bridgehead for another invading army once the Harchongese start to distract the ICA somewhat. Having a force there means that the ICA have to leave at least some troops to interdict them. I think the Temple will want that. And look at the other side. The canal is a very nice tempting route into Dohlar so the RDA have to interdict it at some point which may as well be Evrytyn, especially if there are few natural choke points further back. Or they have to destroy its usefulness to the ICA by blowing a lot of locks which would also prevent the RDA from using it as a supply route at a later time, which I doubt would please the Temple. I don't think the RDA has much choice but try to hold Evrytyn.


I can see the logic. But thing is, should they try to hold Evyrtyn, they lose both the position and the force they would be expending to try to hold on to it with. That in turn weakens them against alliance forces at the next confrontation.

I know they have sent forward reinforcements with St Klymans. But with the exception of the Kyplynger forest, what has proved decisive so far in every battle has been artillery. When DE reinforces Hanth, artillery will once again be what breaks the Dohlarans' back.

Were I EH and DE, I would hope that they would try. However, I agree with you on what the church's pov is likely to be.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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