Yawata strike

SWM wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:From the list of characters in the book "At All Costs"


Nesbitt, Tony—Republic of Haven Secretary of Commerce; Jean-Claude Nesbitt's cousin.

Nesbitt, Colonel Jean-Claude—chief of security, Republic of Haven Department of State; Tony Nesbitt's cousin.


So if this MA thing is a generational descendant family thing, wouldn't both of them be MA agents?

There is no evidence that Jean-Claude Nesbitt is one of the multi-generational Alignment plants. It is far more likely that is he merely a bought agent, who does not know who he is really working for.

The majority of any MAlign plants would have been Legislaturalist familys, because that is where they would be usefull. Most of them would have died when the CPS took over. Being big on planning, I am sure that the MAlign had a few sleeper cells in place "just to be safe," and they were probably patting themselves on the back for great planning when they activated those cells to try to get into the Committee. After the commity fell, I would be supprised if any Mesan descendants even had a wiff of power.

Plans designed for generations do not do well with several bloody revolutions and two complete changes of power in a single generation, let alone only 20 years. Anybody in the current Republican government working for Mesa are being paid, blackmailed, or both.

crewdude48 wrote:Plans designed for generations do not do well with several bloody revolutions and two complete changes of power in a single generation, let alone only 20 years. Anybody in the current Republican government working for Mesa are being paid, blackmailed, or both.

That may be, but I still want the bastards!

I remember when Pritchart became aware of the potential of 'plants/agents' with generational length of entrenchment and she ordered a vetting of people in the government so complete that God would have a hard time passing.

Well, the treecats are going to be the tool to allow that God like vetting of people.

SWM wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:From the list of characters in the book "At All Costs"


Nesbitt, Tony—Republic of Haven Secretary of Commerce; Jean-Claude Nesbitt's cousin.

Nesbitt, Colonel Jean-Claude—chief of security, Republic of Haven Department of State; Tony Nesbitt's cousin.


So if this MA thing is a generational descendant family thing, wouldn't both of them be MA agents?

There is no evidence that Jean-Claude Nesbitt is one of the multi-generational Alignment plants. It is far more likely that is he merely a bought agent, who does not know who he is really working for.

Even if that is true, I still want the bastard! And I want him before he can inflict any more harm.

crewdude48 wrote:The majority of any MAlign plants would have been Legislaturalist familys, because that is where they would be usefull. Most of them would have died when the CPS took over. Being big on planning, I am sure that the MAlign had a few sleeper cells in place "just to be safe," and they were probably patting themselves on the back for great planning when they activated those cells to try to get into the Committee. After the commity fell, I would be supprised if any Mesan descendants even had a wiff of power.

Plans designed for generations do not do well with several bloody revolutions and two complete changes of power in a single generation, let alone only 20 years. Anybody in the current Republican government working for Mesa are being paid, blackmailed, or both.

Even the Committee may have spared (maybe accidentally, maybe from bribery, maybe they were out of the Republic and stayed there, like the Foreign Secretary) some people with some Legislaturalist connections. And the Alignment may have also tapped some families who were prominent but not especially tied to the government, either as you say for insurance, as a part of diverse coverage, or because over time their original government ties waned while Alignment connections persisted.

All that said - I'd peg surviving hereditary Alignment connections in the Republic of Haven as very few, not at all prominent, and entirely possibly non-existent. Just not certainly non-existent.

StealthSeeker wrote:

crewdude48 wrote:Plans designed for generations do not do well with several bloody revolutions and two complete changes of power in a single generation, let alone only 20 years. Anybody in the current Republican government working for Mesa are being paid, blackmailed, or both.

That may be, but I still want the bastards!

I remember when Pritchart became aware of the potential of 'plants/agents' with generational length of entrenchment and she ordered a vetting of people in the government so complete that God would have a hard time passing.

Well, the treecats are going to be the tool to allow that God like vetting of people.

How would Pritchart know about the multi-generational moles? When did this happen? I don't recall any evidence that McBryde passed any information about that to Zilwicki and Cachat.

Plus, how the heck are you going to do that? So I know someone immigrated here 150 years ago. In the US that would be 1865. President Herbert Hoover's mother was an immigrant about that time, so obviously his great grand kids are spies because?

crewdude48 wrote:Plans designed for generations do not do well with several bloody revolutions and two complete changes of power in a single generation, let alone only 20 years. Anybody in the current Republican government working for Mesa are being paid, blackmailed, or both.

StealthSeeker wrote:
That may be, but I still want the bastards!

I remember when Pritchart became aware of the potential of 'plants/agents' with generational length of entrenchment and she ordered a vetting of people in the government so complete that God would have a hard time passing.

Well, the treecats are going to be the tool to allow that God like vetting of people.

SWM wrote:How would Pritchart know about the multi-generational moles? When did this happen? I don't recall any evidence that McBryde passed any information about that to Zilwicki and Cachat.

It was right after Anton and Victor arrived back after their first trip to Mesa, where they talked about the 600 year plan for overthrowing the established order. I don't have he exact reference at this time.

SWM wrote:How would Pritchart know about the multi-generational moles? When did this happen? I don't recall any evidence that McBryde passed any information about that to Zilwicki and Cachat.

Fom Mission of Honor: (chapter 40)
----------------
"You're right," Pritchart agreed. "On the other hand, let's not get too carried away. They may think they're superwomen, but I don't see why we should start thinking of them that way. I don't doubt they could do exactly what you're describing, Tom. In fact, that may well be what they did to the Old Republic. But however long they've been planning, they've still got to hold themselves to a manageable level of complexity. They've got to be able to coordinate everything, and we've had enough experience trying to coordinate the Republic to know how tall an order that can be even when we don't have to worry about keeping communications lines covert. Which has particular point in a case like this, I suspect, since I tend to doubt they could bury their sleepers quite as deeply as you've just suggested. There's got to be at least some contact somewhere if they aren't going to lose their assets simply because someone dies before she gets around to telling her son or daughter 'Oh, by the way. We're actually secret agents for the Mesan Alignment. Here's your secret decoder kit. Be ready to be contacted by the Galactic Evil Overlord on Frequency X with orders to betray the society you've been raised all your life to think of as your own.'"

"Granted." Theisman nodded. "But that contact could be damned well hidden, especially when no one's had any reason to look for it in the first place."
-------------------------

Theisman looked distinctly alarmed, as did LePic. Trenis and Lewis, on the other hand, were obviously trying very hard not to look alarmed. In fact, they were trying so hard—and failing so completely—that the president chuckled much more naturally.

"I'm not planning on talking to anyone unless Leslie, Kevin Usher, and probably you, Tom, all agree that, whoever it is, she's at least her own woman. And, trust me, I'm thinking in terms of a preliminary security vetting God might not pass! And I'm certainly not going to bring anyone like McGwire or Younger in on this until and unless we feel absolutely certain McBryde's and Simões's information is credible. But if we do come to that conclusion, this is going to change every single one of our foreign policy assumptions. That being the case, I think we need to start doing a little very careful, very circumspect spadework as soon as possible."
---------------------------------

kzt wrote:Plus, how the heck are you going to do that? So I know someone immigrated here 150 years ago. In the US that would be 1865. President Herbert Hoover's mother was an immigrant about that time, so obviously his great grand kids are spies because?

But in 1865, we, the U.S., was a "neobarb" country so backward that they had never herd of a little thing called computers. Not so in the Honerverse.

StealthSeeker wrote:

kzt wrote:Plus, how the heck are you going to do that? So I know someone immigrated here 150 years ago. In the US that would be 1865. President Herbert Hoover's mother was an immigrant about that time, so obviously his great grand kids are spies because?

But in 1865, we, the U.S., was a "neobarb" country so backward that they had never herd of a little thing called computers. Not so in the Honerverse.

Yes, but how many of the computer records got destroyed, accidentally or deliberately during not one, not two but three uprisings/changes of government. (St Just taking over from Pierre counts as a change of government.)