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A single SD-based Space Station

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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SharkHunter   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:07 pm

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Sorry to reintroduce thoughts that cause grouchiness. My mea culpa is that I've shifted from any kind of military focus for the ships to more of a "Central Defense and orbitally interesting" node. For that matter, a receiving system would have to ask for something like that to begin with, I don't think there's an inter-system "CraigsList" offering or wanting to buy used up SD's. Maybe a distant from nodal-force system begs the powers that be to do SOMETHING in the mean time...

So... we can kill this thread if y'all want, no harm no foul.
That said...

Weird Harold wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Or you could just not do much and park it like an very overweight guard dog and staff as required.


Staffing is one of the biggest problems; It requires humongous numbers of trained spacers just to keep a Scientist-class SD from falling out of orbit. Not to mention they've been described as not very energy-efficient; as in they are the Honorverse equivalent of gallon-per-mile gas-hogs.

Why accept a white-elephant that take 750-1000 people as a station-keeping watch when either Manticore or Haven can provide state-of-the-art space station components that only require a dozen or so permanent crew when assembled?

Likely to train minimal in-system forces in something bigger than LAC fission rooms, etc. The "true station" argument that I put up is that Haven needs to rebuild their own capacity that the RMN trashed first PLUS act as a ship supplier so that the RMN and Beowulf can arm them, and that there's NO excess Manticoran building capacity until the 99% destroyed space-based infrastructure gets replaced. That means the rest of the Verge / GA / Silesian / Talbott systems gets to suck the supply hind teat for at least the next several years. At the same time that FF and the MAlign are getting frisky.

That said, I hadn't thought an essentially mothballed but still lightly staffed ship would need that big of a "station keeping force", at least until it was made useful for other purposes. That staffing would be whatever those other purposes required. I'd imagined that a good freighter crew could keep the SD from falling out of orbit, for example, because there's no goal to "fight the ship", ever, except defensively. It's exactly the guard dog "pit bull with big teeth sitting in the yard", pretty much.

If it required the full quantity of 750-1000 trained spacers to do even that much, I'd hope they're already on their way to the breakers.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SWM   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:50 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:If it required the full quantity of 750-1000 trained spacers to do even that much, I'd hope they're already on their way to the breakers.

Yeah, it takes that many people just to keep the generators, rad shields, impellers, life support, and other basic functions operating. That's basically what we learned during the escape from Cerberus--making the ship move only required a relatively small number beyond that required for just station-keeping.

Superdreadnought operations are high-maintenance. They are built with multiple redundancies, so you need more people to operate and maintain the redundant equipment. They run at much higher levels and lower tolerances than civilian equipment, which leads to shorter lifetimes and higher maintenance requirements. You can't just cut out the redundancies or loosen the tolerances, either. The defensive partitioning of internal spaces puts yet more restrictions and stress on ship-wide systems like HVAC, power, and control conduits, requiring even more maintenance while at the same time making it harder to access maintenance points. And of course, the more people you need maintaining and operating the system, the more support people you need for food, medical, and administrative support.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by munroburton   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:02 pm

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You might as well convert a pyramid into an airport.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by Hutch   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:03 pm

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Not a space station, per se (I agree completely with the objections herein), but maybe....

How about as an orbiting "Space Command" Headquarters, that allows the commanders of the small SDF's (which in both Talbot and Silesia are probably going to get bigger) run their organizations without interference with the civilian side of the house.

Yeah, it would be outgrown in a short time as SDF's grow, but it would serve a military-driven purpose, could be used at the same time as a training center (not necessarily on the Sollie equipment, simulators can be added/upgraded), and military hospital.

Just off the top of my head (which is currently filled with snot) so I am sure that there are holes in it, but outside of stripping all useful equipment and sending it to the breakers, it is the only thing I could concieve.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:40 pm

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munroburton wrote:You might as well convert a pyramid into an airport.
In comparison, a trivial task. Stick a control tower on top, bulldoze out a runway nearby, toss up a windsock and you're in business. ;)

At least if all you want to handle is DC-3s, and only during good weather.

On the plus side the pyramid is low maintenance and isn't a manpower hog.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:15 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
munroburton wrote:You might as well convert a pyramid into an airport.
In comparison, a trivial task. Stick a control tower on top, bulldoze out a runway nearby, toss up a windsock and you're in business. ;)

At least if all you want to handle is DC-3s, and only during good weather.

On the plus side the pyramid is low maintenance and isn't a manpower hog.

All those in favor of putting a stake through the heart of this one, don't reply - but we do need to get the wet noodle bazooka ready.

People, they are useless pieces of crap, no more use to the people of the Honorverse than a complete fleet of dugout canoes would be to us - with the proviso that the dugout canoes are made out of battle steel that you can't do anything with.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by n7axw   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:13 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
munroburton wrote:You might as well convert a pyramid into an airport.
In comparison, a trivial task. Stick a control tower on top, bulldoze out a runway nearby, toss up a windsock and you're in business. ;)

At least if all you want to handle is DC-3s, and only during good weather.

On the plus side the pyramid is low maintenance and isn't a manpower hog.


Believe it or not, we have an airport like that near here. It is the Turkey Ridge Airport. Has a crop duster and a grass runway. Even got a weather station. Alas, the pyramid is missing though...

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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by George J. Smith   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:45 am

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munroburton wrote:You might as well convert a pyramid into an airport.


mmm... wasn't that done in the Stargate film :lol:

oops, no it was only a landing pad :mrgreen:
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by JeffEngel   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:13 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote:People, they are useless pieces of crap, no more use to the people of the Honorverse than a complete fleet of dugout canoes would be to us - with the proviso that the dugout canoes are made out of battle steel that you can't do anything with.

I'm sure that, with building facilities destroyed and, in the privacy of their offices and homes among trusted confidantes, people like Baron Grantville are still gibbering a little at the thought of being at war with the Solarian League and are comming Hamish Alexander-Harrington at all hours with oddball ideas for using all those superdreadnoughts.

"So - no good for stations in Silesia?"

"No. Willy, it's 3 AM. Honor's stirring. Do you really want me to have to shout at you and wake her?"

"... G'night, Ham."

"Night, Willy."
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by munroburton   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:20 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
munroburton wrote:You might as well convert a pyramid into an airport.
In comparison, a trivial task. Stick a control tower on top, bulldoze out a runway nearby, toss up a windsock and you're in business. ;)

At least if all you want to handle is DC-3s, and only during good weather.

On the plus side the pyramid is low maintenance and isn't a manpower hog.


Ouch, you got me. :P

I was thinking disassembly of the pyramid and using every bit of it to fabricate the runway and accroutements of an airport. Using the same sort of techniques and technology the pyramid's builders used(unless they're Goa'uld).
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