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A single SD-based Space Station

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A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SharkHunter   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:39 pm

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There's an active 'refuses to die' thread about the captured Solarian SD's from the Battle of Spindle and Filerata's folly, even though David himself has said fighting ships, they're not useful, and likely can't be made so purposefully, given that it's far more cost effective and useful to build a bunch of Rolands or Sag-C's for the same crewing requirements, etc.

That said, if they haven't already been junked, as a group those dang big useless boats are soaking up empty but bothersome orbital space around busy planets, so perhaps they could use a few crews to selectively move some of them one at a time to smaller systems, say in the Silesian Confederacy or the Talbott quadrant to act as a core for a tiny space station, never to move from that destination system ever again.

The why would be that Grayson, for example lost fusion power capability for hundreds of years, and we read about other systems that practically fell back to "dark ages" levels, and w read about mining stations that got jumped by pirates. Even though it's useless as a mobile fighting ship, both of those scenarios go away with an SD-based station orbiting overhead.

Under the presumption that it would be worth the bother to move them rather than junking them, then what?
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SharkHunter   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:41 pm

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One usage we've suggested already is that they be gutted by "in system crews" for starship maintenance experience, and turned into orbital hospital ships for example. They could also house alot of space marines, although I'd argue that might give a local despot ideas about a takeover then using the ship in a totalitarian fashion, which I think we can agree that is not something that the GA or RMN wishes to encourage.

The floor is open for "bids and suggestions".
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SWM   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:15 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:There's an active 'refuses to die' thread about the captured Solarian SD's from the Battle of Spindle and Filerata's folly, even though David himself has said fighting ships, they're not useful, and likely can't be made so purposefully, given that it's far more cost effective and useful to build a bunch of Rolands or Sag-C's for the same crewing requirements, etc.

That said, if they haven't already been junked, as a group those dang big useless boats are soaking up empty but bothersome orbital space around busy planets, so perhaps they could use a few crews to selectively move some of them one at a time to smaller systems, say in the Silesian Confederacy or the Talbott quadrant to act as a core for a tiny space station, never to move from that destination system ever again.

The why would be that Grayson, for example lost fusion power capability for hundreds of years, and we read about other systems that practically fell back to "dark ages" levels, and w read about mining stations that got jumped by pirates. Even though it's useless as a mobile fighting ship, both of those scenarios go away with an SD-based station orbiting overhead.

Under the presumption that it would be worth the bother to move them rather than junking them, then what?

Those scenarios are already gone--the only systems that are currently back in the dark ages are those who are not in contact with other systems, and thus obviously cannot be given a superdreadnought.

A superdreadnought makes a really lousy core for a space station. Too much of it's volume is taken up by stuff which is useless for a space station, and it is extremely hard to modify. If you want to give some poor system a space station, just give them a space station. Manticore has made space station modules that fit onto freighters. It will be a lot easier for the locals to use and build on.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SWM   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:17 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:One usage we've suggested already is that they be gutted by "in system crews" for starship maintenance experience, and turned into orbital hospital ships for example. They could also house alot of space marines, although I'd argue that might give a local despot ideas about a takeover then using the ship in a totalitarian fashion, which I think we can agree that is not something that the GA or RMN wishes to encourage.

The floor is open for "bids and suggestions".

All of those ideas have been shot down.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by Brigade XO   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:27 pm

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Much has also been posted about the challange of deconstructing a ship with as much armor and interior compartmentalization, not to mention the non-trivial amount of work that would be required to make sure that you re-routed all the required stuff (like environmental, communications, power, control runs and passageways (with space-tight hatches & open/close equipment to seal off all of same in emergencies). Then you have to modify the software so that the systems involved no longer try to activate all the stuff that is not there but does add all the stuff that had to be added.

It is possible that an SD can function as a space station but let it function as a station for a really long time you are going to have to add a bunch of stuff. That would mostly be for operational side as a station which would include more docking and probably more storage capacity. Certainly you can leave in all of the crew accommodations (military) and support like mess areas and whomever is assigned there is just going to have to live with it.

Since you are going to leave a lot, probably most, of the weapons, all of the tactical and all of the defensive systems, you are going to have to keep things like all of your magazine space but change any cross-feed for weapons systems to address what is done. Otherwise it is going to be very limited as far as being able to either defend itself or pose a threat to anyone looking to trouble the system. You are also probably not going to want to use it as a variation of a Monitor type (mobil battery) ship to move about the system in responce to threats since, while it could clearly with it's impeller drive, you then leave the major planet (which I presume you are protecting) undefended. Even with SLN weapons, you can shoot around the planet if needed for things that get really close. If it is inteneded to be the tactical hub of the system defense, it also should sick around the primary thing being defended.

Or you could just not do much and park it like an very overweight guard dog and staff as required.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SharkHunter   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:49 pm

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One of the objections is that Manticore can just send in "space station modules", however, the capability to build those modules just got all blown up, unless you plan to bring them all the way from Haven space -- much of which was recently all blown up by the RMN. The SD's are also known to be useless in modern system defensive "control", so mobile defenses still have to be LACs and visiting CA/BC types.

Realistically, about the only "offensive armament" I'd leave in place following the "deconstruction" would be the grasers. I'd be much more interested in using alot of the missile space and computer control for countermissiles and PDLC defensive measures, as that could make a helluva defensive shield. Not against the GA or a big Solarian attack group, but just about anyone else. Wedge and sidewall capability goes without saying, there's just no reason not to leave them in place, and eventually give the suckers bow and stern walls as well. It's not like they'd usually need them for battle in "the next 100-T years", either the GA wins and they're not needed at all or the MAlign wins, and takes over, not bothering with the "rural universe" until the big boys are digested.

The other part of that thought is as a sort of "rotate up to the ship/station" Alliance-University lite. Ten years later likely the thing has alot more docking stations, connecting points, etc. and doesn't resemble an SD on the interior at all, most likely, having had most of the innards converted to astrographic sections, system control stations, etc. The flag bridge and CIC are probably still in play but got upgraded over a period of time to use RMN tech.

I'd hope they could have Beowulf standard med schools/tech expertise also to assist in that level of first-level medical infrastructure on the planet below.

Thoughts?
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by SWM   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:12 pm

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I'm sorry if I'm sounding grouchy. Some of us are just really really tired of the same old arguments, trying to come up with uses for captured superdreadnoughts every three to six months, for the last nine years. These proposals started after Manticore captured all those Havenite ships at the First Battle of Manticore, and have now continued with the Solarian ships. The topic has been beaten to a bloody pulp.

I still think you are grossly underestimating how difficult it is to modify a superdreadnought. Now you are suggesting that it can be modified in orbit of a planet which doesn't have any existing orbital infrastructure. We've already been told that it requires a full shipyard to do any significant modifications, so you are essentially suggesting constructing the basic functionality of a full shipyard in connection with the ship/station. I still don't see how that is better than simply building the station from scratch.
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:30 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Or you could just not do much and park it like an very overweight guard dog and staff as required.


Staffing is one of the biggest problems; It requires humongous numbers of trained spacers just to keep a Scientist-class SD from falling out of orbit. Not to mention they've been described as not very energy-efficient; as in they are the Honorverse equivalent of gallon-per-mile gas-hogs.

Why accept a white-elephant that take 750-1000 people as a station-keeping watch when either Manticore or Haven can provide state-of-the-art space station components that only require a dozen or so permanent crew when assembled?
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:39 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:Wedge and sidewall capability goes without saying, there's just no reason not to leave them in place, and eventually give the suckers bow and stern walls as well.
Bow and stern walls apparently require gutting and rebuilding the impeller rooms (and presumably the nodes; though those are easier to get at); per SoS.

So that's a non-trivial modification.


(The only reason a stern wall was a field retrofit to the Shrikes is that their Beta-Squared nodes, and the impeller rooms that drove them, were already designed to integrate with a 'wall. So it was easy to take advantage of that inherent compatibility to bolt on a aft generator as a compliment to the existing forward one)
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Re: A single SD-based Space Station
Post by jchilds   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:02 pm

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Turn a couple of intact and a couple of not so intact Scientists over to BuTrain and the RMMC for practising SAR and boarding operations. Given the combat disparity we've been seeing, those are operations they could end up performing all to often.

Other than that, scrap'em.
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