Question about Beowulf tactics

Weird Harold wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:It may be difficult, but it is at least possible. I'll have to look at the CD that came with the hard cover of one of the books and see what format those are in. Maybe I can have at least some of the books in a searchable format.

Everything up through Mission of Honor and Torch of Freedom are available at the Fifth Imperium in the Baen Free Library files (zip and ISO copies of all the various CDs included in first printings.) The files include ePUB or LIT, RTF and HTML versions and are DRM free so Calibre can convert to PDF or Kindle (mobi or azw3) as desired.

Thanks for the info, I'll try to see if I can locate what you are talking about. If I can't, I'll ask for a little help.

Weird Harold wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:If I remember correctly, operation buttercup was the first use of the SD(P) class of ships and the first use of dual drive MDM missiles, which I think would have made them the Mk16 missiles not the Mk23. So some older ships may have been refitted for the Mk16, but maybe not for the larger Mk23. Henke is using older SD(P)s and all she has in Mk16 missiles. (I think)

1: missiles used in Buttercup were capacitor powered--Mk 31s?. The Fusion powered Mk-16 and Mk23 weren't developed until the interwar years.

2: Michelle Henke commanded a squadron of Agamemnon BC(P)s when she was captured. The Aggies can fire either Mk-16 or Mk-23 but have more ammo when loaded with Mk-16s.

I was thinking more of Henke's current deployment in the Talbot sector. Or, actually, as of the end of "Cauldron of Ghosts", sitting in Mesa. To bad the MA has "left the building" as it were.

StealthSeeker wrote:Thanks for the info, I'll try to see if I can locate what you are talking about. If I can't, I'll ask for a little help.

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/

Sorry, I meant to put the link in the previous post.

StealthSeeker wrote:I was thinking more of Henke's current deployment in the Talbot sector. Or, actually, as of the end of "Cauldron of Ghosts", sitting in Mesa. To bad the MA has "left the building" as it were.

That's a matter of missile availability than the age of her SD(p)s. I'm not sure, but IIRC, only the apollos were recalled for eighth fleet's reserve. She may still have Mk-23s in her SD's.

Weird Harold wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:If I remember correctly, operation buttercup was the first use of the SD(P) class of ships and the first use of dual drive MDM missiles, which I think would have made them the Mk16 missiles not the Mk23. So some older ships may have been refitted for the Mk16, but maybe not for the larger Mk23. Henke is using older SD(P)s and all she has in Mk16 missiles. (I think)

1: MDMs used in Buttercup were capacitor powered--Mk 31s?. The Fusion powered Mk-16 and Mk23 weren't developed until the interwar years.

2: Michelle Henke commanded a squadron of Agamemnon BC(P)s when she was captured. The Aggies can fire either Mk-16 or Mk-23 but have more ammo when loaded with Mk-16s.

IIRC HoS finally told us those original MDMs were Mk41s.

StealthSeeker wrote:If I remember correctly, operation buttercup was the first use of the SD(P) class of ships and the first use of dual drive MDM missiles, which I think would have made them the Mk16 missiles not the Mk23. So some older ships may have been refitted for the Mk16, but maybe not for the larger Mk23. Henke is using older SD(P)s and all she has in Mk16 missiles. (I think)

No, mk23 and mk16s are contemporaries. The old missile has a designation in HoS, but that is the only place I've seen it. it is a full mdm.

StealthSeeker wrote:

n7axw wrote:Prior to Buttercup, the Peeps might have been able to take Beowulf, but they wouldn't have been able to keep it. The SLN had more than enough to boot the Peeps back where they came from and irritating the SLN by aggression against an SL member would have not been a good survival choice.

Don

Prior to buttercup the Peeps were still using single stage missiles that would only have been marginally better than what the SLN was using. At that point in time the SLN would have still been able to call up massive numbers of their SD's and kicked the Peep's posterior.

It's only the current technology gap that makes Manticore and Haven a threat to the SLN.

Precisely. Remember that prior to Buttercup the Peeps were purchasing their most advanced tech from the League although I know it's an open question how much of that made its way into the SLN. In addition to that, the SLN has about 5 times as many SDs as the Peeps at that point.

Pre-Buttercup, the SLN is the 500 pound gorilla that no one wants to irritate.

Don

n7axw wrote:Precisely. Remember that prior to Buttercup the Peeps were purchasing their most advanced tech from the League although I know it's an open question how much of that made its way into the SLN. In addition to that, the SLN has about 5 times as many SDs as the Peeps at that point.

Pre-Buttercup, the SLN is the 500 pound gorilla that no one wants to irritate.

Don

To be fair it looks like even back then the Peeps were doing a better job of turning that basic weapons tech into efficient and effective warships that the SLN was.

Even at the start of the war their SDs were bigger, mounted more tubes, and better point defense than the SLN's (not to mention they didn't have the anemic cycle times on their launchers - and evidence is that they had better ECM software and doctrines; though that's harder to judge)

Scientist-class SD
6.8 mtons; 420 g
broadside: 32 tubes, 24 lasers, 26 grasers, 16 CMs, 32 PDLCs

Duquesne-class SD
7.18 mtons; 417.5 g
broadside: 36 tubes, 12 lasers, 12 grasers, 28 CMs, 24 PDLCs

Even the Peeps had designs built around the standoff range of laserheads, and therefore the greater need to rely on CMs for point defense. I think they'd have roughly handled any SLN fleet that came to call.

Could they stand off to the massed weight of BattleFleet; amost certainly not. But the SLN would need a significant numerical advantage or else they're going to get bloodied pretty badly in the missile exchange before they could hope to close to decisive energy range (if the Peeps were didn't just break off and roll wedge when the range got that close)

Jonathan_S wrote:

n7axw wrote:Precisely. Remember that prior to Buttercup the Peeps were purchasing their most advanced tech from the League although I know it's an open question how much of that made its way into the SLN. In addition to that, the SLN has about 5 times as many SDs as the Peeps at that point.

Pre-Buttercup, the SLN is the 500 pound gorilla that no one wants to irritate.

Don

To be fair it looks like even back then the Peeps were doing a better job of turning that basic weapons tech into efficient and effective warships that the SLN was.

Even at the start of the war their SDs were bigger, mounted more tubes, and better point defense than the SLN's (not to mention they didn't have the anemic cycle times on their launchers - and evidence is that they had better ECM software and doctrines; though that's harder to judge)

Scientist-class SD
6.8 mtons; 420 g
broadside: 32 tubes, 24 lasers, 26 grasers, 16 CMs, 32 PDLCs

Duquesne-class SD
7.18 mtons; 417.5 g
broadside: 36 tubes, 12 lasers, 12 grasers, 28 CMs, 24 PDLCs

Even the Peeps had designs built around the standoff range of laserheads, and therefore the greater need to rely on CMs for point defense. I think they'd have roughly handled any SLN fleet that came to call.

Could they stand off to the massed weight of BattleFleet; amost certainly not. But the SLN would need a significant numerical advantage or else they're going to get bloodied pretty badly in the missile exchange before they could hope to close to decisive energy range (if the Peeps were didn't just break off and roll wedge when the range got that close)

At least some of the Solarian tech the PRH was buying was stuff companies had tried to sell the SLN and hadn't, like the stealthed attack drone used by St. Just's people for the Cromarty Assassination at the end of the first war.

That's the best example of something the SLN had rejected, but it's unfortunately one that wouldn't really fit in any regular naval use. (It'd've been something the MAN may've been interested in for Oyster Bay style attacks if they hadn't worked out the spider drive. In retrospect, I'm curious about the ultimate sources of that weapon's research.) I wouldn't be surprised if some of those transfers weren't things the People's Republic could build themselves, just with prohibitive costs and in too-limited numbers by the small number of really competent technicians and engineers they had.

One thing the PRN had going for it even then, compared to the SLN, was ship design and doctrine and electronic warfare all fully in the laserhead era. What the SLN deployed lagged further behind what it could deploy as far as tech and tactical standards go more than any other navy.

Weird Harold wrote:

StealthSeeker wrote:It may be difficult, but it is at least possible. I'll have to look at the CD that came with the hard cover of one of the books and see what format those are in. Maybe I can have at least some of the books in a searchable format.

Everything up through Mission of Honor and Torch of Freedom are available at the Fifth Imperium in the Baen Free Library files (zip and ISO copies of all the various CDs included in first printings.) The files include ePUB or LIT, RTF and HTML versions and are DRM free so Calibre can convert to PDF or Kindle (mobi or azw3) as desired.

The CDs include Kindle compatible files (mobi or prc) with no need to use Calibre to convert.

Vince wrote:The CDs include Kindle compatible files (mobi or prc) with no need to use Calibre to convert.

My Kindle Fire won't recognize .PRC files, and some of the older titles have .LIT ebook formats and Word97 .DOC in place of .RTF.

I haven't tried it, but Kindles may be able to use the HTML files directly.

Weird Harold wrote:

Vince wrote:The CDs include Kindle compatible files (mobi or prc) with no need to use Calibre to convert.

My Kindle Fire won't recognize .PRC files, and some of the older titles have .LIT ebook formats and Word97 .DOC in place of .RTF.

I haven't tried it, but Kindles may be able to use the HTML files directly.

Odd, my various eink Kindles have read them no problem.

(Well, the older prc files don't have metadata, so I just get the filename; rather than title and author. But they still work fine otherwise)


I wonder why the Kindle tablet wasn't handling them as well?
(A quick google search showed some people saying prcs were filed under docs, rather than books; which is also odd.
But worst case calibre should be able to convert one of the various file formats on the CDs into something that pretty much any tablet or ereader can handle.