Hot Air and the start of Flight

Just think of the fear factor airships would generate. If an an airship droped a squad of special forces to burn or capture a bridge chances are that the forces guarding would run away at first sight of the airship, at least for the first couple of times. And they also have steel thistle to make into the fabric and to laminate the wood with.

SWM wrote:
The only question has been whether there might be something explicit in the Proscriptions about flight. Some have suggested that it is plausible that Langhorne might have included something along the lines of "The ability to fly is restricted to the Angels." But we have no text to support arguments either way. That leaves the door wide open to speculation.

We've seen multiple people being flown and never heard any comments that it's prescribed. While that doesn't say either way, it implies (at least to me) that there aren't any restrictions, because if there were, I would think someone would have commented on it.

I think It would be a major fear and tactical advantage I'm writing a bit of fan fiction of Merlin dropping the Idea to someone with a toy balloon.

SWM wrote:
The only question has been whether there might be something explicit in the Proscriptions about flight. Some have suggested that it is plausible that Langhorne might have included something along the lines of "The ability to fly is restricted to the Angels." But we have no text to support arguments either way. That leaves the door wide open to speculation.

jeremyr wrote:
We've seen multiple people being flown and never heard any comments that it's prescribed. While that doesn't say either way, it implies (at least to me) that there aren't any restrictions, because if there were, I would think someone would have commented on it.

Virtually all of hte people being flown are members of hte inner circle, or about to become members (Nynian and Sandaria), so its not surprising that there are no comments to that effect.

SWM wrote:

I don't think that meets my standards of credibility, and I doubt that Safeholdians would fall for it either. Besides, if there is anything in the Proscriptions, it could have been phrased as "travel through the air". We have no idea whether the Proscriptiosn say anything about it, or how it is phrased, so arguing your way around it by assuming a particular phrasing doesn't work.

Well if you can chop logic your way through to steam, why not hot air balloons?

Don

n7axw wrote:

SWM wrote:

I don't think that meets my standards of credibility, and I doubt that Safeholdians would fall for it either. Besides, if there is anything in the Proscriptions, it could have been phrased as "travel through the air". We have no idea whether the Proscriptiosn say anything about it, or how it is phrased, so arguing your way around it by assuming a particular phrasing doesn't work.

Well if you can chop logic your way through to steam, why not hot air balloons?

Don

My point was actually that there is no point in chopping logic at all when we have no idea what the Proscriptions says about flying, if anything. In the absence of any textev, people are free to speculate at will, without worrying about the Proscriptions.

SWM wrote:My point was actually that there is no point in chopping logic at all when we have no idea what the Proscriptions says about flying, if anything. In the absence of any textev, people are free to speculate at will, without worrying about the Proscriptions.

It may well have been one of those things they simply figured were not worth mentioning, as there is no way that a muscle powered civilization is going to be able to do anything with a hot air balloon. Remember that they didn't put a specific prohibition against gunpowder in the Proscriptions either - they may have thought that it was clearly a violation, and there is some textev that gunpowder was approved only due to a fairly massive bribe from Harchong.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

SWM wrote:My point was actually that there is no point in chopping logic at all when we have no idea what the Proscriptions says about flying, if anything. In the absence of any textev, people are free to speculate at will, without worrying about the Proscriptions.

It may well have been one of those things they simply figured were not worth mentioning, as there is no way that a muscle powered civilization is going to be able to do anything with a hot air balloon. Remember that they didn't put a specific prohibition against gunpowder in the Proscriptions either - they may have thought that it was clearly a violation, and there is some textev that gunpowder was approved only due to a fairly massive bribe from Harchong.

There is really no textev at all on the subject of gunpowder. However, given the kind of society the Archangels were committed to maintaining, not forbiding gunpowder would have been nuts. So I, for one, suspect that it was indeed forbidden...which of course is why a bribe was needed to get it approved.

Don

Muscle, wind and water power were, IIRC, the only ones permitted. Gunpowder doesn't fall under any of those. Interestingly, steam could be said to do so.

As an aviation buff, I'd love to see airships in Safehold's skies, and I agree it's possible with the current tech -- the first dirigible flew in 1852. I don't know where they'd get hydrogen or helium gas, though. Could a hot-air-filled gas-bag be steered in the same way as a sealed one?

JenBurdoo2 wrote:Muscle, wind and water power were, IIRC, the only ones permitted. Gunpowder doesn't fall under any of those. Interestingly, steam could be said to do so.

As an aviation buff, I'd love to see airships in Safehold's skies, and I agree it's possible with the current tech -- the first dirigible flew in 1852. I don't know where they'd get hydrogen or helium gas, though. Could a hot-air-filled gas-bag be steered in the same way as a sealed one?

Not clear with steam engines for the motive power. It is certainly possible if you have the IC engine, but that was in a different thread, and got thoroughly hashed over with a lot of people both pro and con.