Hot Air and the start of Flight

I am wondering if Hot Air Balloons could be used as a means to get a jump on Air navigation without further crushing the proscriptions, they seem low tech yet useful enough to warrant development. What do you think?

Kascar808 wrote:I am wondering if Hot Air Balloons could be used as a means to get a jump on Air navigation without further crushing the proscriptions, they seem low tech yet useful enough to warrant development. What do you think?

Yes, that has been a hot topic of discussion. No one disagrees that hot air balloons are easily within reach of Safehold technology. There has been much discussion of what balloons could be used for, for both military and civilian purposes.

The only question has been whether there might be something explicit in the Proscriptions about flight. Some have suggested that it is plausible that Langhorne might have included something along the lines of "The ability to fly is restricted to the Angels." But we have no text to support arguments either way. That leaves the door wide open to speculation.

SWM wrote:Yes, that has been a hot topic of discussion. No one disagrees that hot air balloons are easily within reach of Safehold technology. There has been much discussion of what balloons could be used for, for both military and civilian purposes.

The only question has been whether there might be something explicit in the Proscriptions about flight. Some have suggested that it is plausible that Langhorne might have included something along the lines of "The ability to fly is restricted to the Angels." But we have no text to support arguments either way. That leaves the door wide open to speculation.

Well, we could always press on the point, that the baloons and airshis aren't really flying: they are floation in the air. Surely Archangel Langhorne haven't forbidden ships that could float in water! And the airships is, generally, the same ships, just with ability to float in air!

By the matter, recently i have done some calculations with my comrades... It's perfectly possible to build effective airship, using only the 1860-th style technology.

Dilandu wrote:

SWM wrote:Yes, that has been a hot topic of discussion. No one disagrees that hot air balloons are easily within reach of Safehold technology. There has been much discussion of what balloons could be used for, for both military and civilian purposes.

The only question has been whether there might be something explicit in the Proscriptions about flight. Some have suggested that it is plausible that Langhorne might have included something along the lines of "The ability to fly is restricted to the Angels." But we have no text to support arguments either way. That leaves the door wide open to speculation.

Well, we could always press on the point, that the baloons and airshis aren't really flying: they are floation in the air. Surely Archangel Langhorne haven't forbidden ships that could float in water! And the airships is, generally, the same ships, just with ability to float in air!

I don't think that meets my standards of credibility, and I doubt that Safeholdians would fall for it either. Besides, if there is anything in the Proscriptions, it could have been phrased as "travel through the air". We have no idea whether the Proscriptiosn say anything about it, or how it is phrased, so arguing your way around it by assuming a particular phrasing doesn't work.

Dilandu wrote:

SWM wrote:Yes, that has been a hot topic of discussion. No one disagrees that hot air balloons are easily within reach of Safehold technology. There has been much discussion of what balloons could be used for, for both military and civilian purposes.

The only question has been whether there might be something explicit in the Proscriptions about flight. Some have suggested that it is plausible that Langhorne might have included something along the lines of "The ability to fly is restricted to the Angels." But we have no text to support arguments either way. That leaves the door wide open to speculation.

Well, we could always press on the point, that the baloons and airshis aren't really flying: they are floation in the air. Surely Archangel Langhorne haven't forbidden ships that could float in water! And the airships is, generally, the same ships, just with ability to float in air!

And that is exactly the kind of lawyering that was used to justify the steam engine. Maybe it's time to sneak a copy of the plans for it to Clyntahn, and let him issue the exemption for flight in order to give the Temple troops an unprecedented advantage in their war against the apostate - until they run into the AA that Charis has developed.

fallsfromtrees wrote:And that is exactly the kind of lawyering that was used to justify the steam engine.

Exactly!

And it's really possible - to build steam-powered airship even on 1860th level of technology.

fallsfromtrees wrote:And that is exactly the kind of lawyering that was used to justify the steam engine.

Dilandu wrote:Exactly!

And it's really possible - to build steam-powered airship even on 1860th level of technology.

And the steam technology is closer to 1900 than 1860, which should make it even easier.

fallsfromtrees wrote:
And the steam technology is closer to 1900 than 1860, which should make it even easier.

Yes. The main problem would be the abscence of radio for communication. But - we still would be able to use airships for reconaissance, long-range bombing (quite accurate, actually; the airship with its high stability and ability to stall in air could drop bombs much more accurate than the airplane on comparable height) and tactical battlefield control. We could use flag signals to transfre data between the airship above the battlefield and command position; we would be able to oversee the enemy tactical movements, correct the artillery fire and control the deployement.

P.S. I've been working on some US civil-war era alternate history... not the ultimate "hard" type, but pretty close.

Generally speaking, with the 1860-th style materials, we could build a 3200 cubic meters hydrogen-filled blimp, that would be able to carry about 500 kg of fuel and about 457 kg of crew, ammunition and other supplies. She would be able to go at 25-30 km/h, and stay airborne for 3-4 hours.

I worked on the assumption that the Stringfellow-Hanson engine was really able to give 1 h.p. per 5 kg of mass, with 1,7-litres water.