MATC

We're told in one of the Shadow- series that Henke et. all are thinking of helping the populace feel invested in their own naval defense by doing LAC crew training based on simulators, etc. in the Talbott quadrant. It's known that the educational level won't support full commissioning that way, but I'd assume that what will happen is the smaller systems will use the early training to figure out who the creme de la creme are, and send them to Saganami Island, because that curriculum dates back to tech not as good as PD 1922, and that's a good place to train up from.

There's also the fact that time aboard a ship with a good captain results in a certain amount of OJT training a la HMAMC Wayfarer, which had way too many raw recruits for Lucien Cortez' comfort to the extent that he apologized to Honor about it. Let's say you put 10-20 newbies per ship on every RMN and Haven naval ship other than perhaps the Roland(s) and Saganami(s). Guaranteed by a full set of cruises later, those folks oughta be pretty dang good compared to Talbott et. al standards, and that's what, 5000 crew members per cycle?

cthia wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:AKA Military Assistance and Training Command.

The Grand Alliance (and/or individual members) is going to need a rather extensive one in order to bring mutual defense treaty partners up to speed on modern Haven Sector LAC tech and multi-drive system defense missiles with Moriarty or Mycroft command and control systems.

Where do the trainers come from, how much training will they provide, how long will they stay in any given system, or any other thoughts....

Nice question.

I think training should be a local thing to Manticore, or at least contained within one system. I don't think a possibly limited number of applicants, qualified to train, should go traipsing around from system to system. Other members of the Alliance should be willing to travel to one designated system to receive that training. The Miramar of the Honorverse. We all know the Manties are the Top Guns of LAC warfare. Truman and Scotty will head up the training after both spend stints at Bolthole to familiarize themselves with Havenite Systems.

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Alice is available when she gets back from Beowulf, Scotty (and Harkness) will take a bit longer since they are either at Montana or on their way to Loomis, Swallow or Serephim.

-- Stewart

AKA Military Assistance and Training Command.

The Grand Alliance (and/or individual members) is going to need a rather extensive one in order to bring mutual defense treaty partners up to speed on modern Haven Sector LAC tech and multi-drive system defense missiles with Moriarty or Mycroft command and control systems.

Where do the trainers come from, how much training will they provide, how long will they stay in any given system, or any other thoughts....[/quote]
I would think that the LACs to be exported will be no better than the Cimmterre's that Haven used during Thunderbolt. Those will be adequate for most system defense, so most of your technicians can come from Haven. The same goes for system defense pods. You want to make them large enough that it will be extremely difficult to use them on a ship (to prevent incipient warlordism), so again Haven technology should be more than adequate, and prevents Manticore miniaturization tech from getting out any faster than absolutely necessary.[/quote]

I agree with fallsfromtrees here. There is no point in spreading advanced Manticoran tech far and wide. Distribute a lighter version of Haven tech including Moriarity rather than Mycroft and then monitor closely how it is used and the threat level it faces.

Don[/quote]

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Agree -- for the "liberated" verge systems, an "export" Havenite Alpha or Cimmitere LAC will provide working hardware (and likely easier maintenance)
Training and tactics can be accomplished either at Saganami Island or the Courvasier Center in Harrington.

Specialized courses for their received equipment. The term "train the trainers" comes to mind.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:Agree -- for the "liberated" verge systems, an "export" Havenite Alpha or Cimmitere LAC will provide working hardware (and likely easier maintenance)
Training and tactics can be accomplished either at Saganami Island or the Courvasier Center in Harrington.

Why would training on Havenite equipment be conducted at Manticoran or Grayson centers? Why not ship trainees back to Haven or some other Havenite system (Barnet?) if your going for centralized training?

stewart wrote:Specialized courses for their received equipment. The term "train the trainers" comes to mind.

I'm sure there is going to be a mix of in-residence and in-the-field training to train indigenous personnel to train other indigenous personnel.

But what about the "Assistance" role as opposed to the "Training" role. MATC would encompass both, and sometimes with the same equipment and personnel, I should think. Sort of "Set up and man defenses while training indigenous personnel to man and maintain said defenses" type of orders.

Hutch wrote:This is a topic I actually know a bit about, as I work in Foreign Military Sales for the US Army.

Oh! Good. Brains to feed on... I mean brains to pick, of course.

Hutch wrote:There is a wide variety of training offered to foreign governments who buy our stuff (I am using US army terms, other services and countries may vary).

That "wide variety" is what I expect former Solarian Systems to require. Especially since I don't expect the GA to be able to handle the demand and/or other arms merchants to offer competing systems and training.


Speaking of competing arms merchants, how likely is it that the Renaissance Factor (or some other empire builder) will get in the Military Assistance game as a way to infiltrate and co-opt neighboring systems?

Another thought:

How much of any field training team is going to be spies looking for double-crosses and corruption selling-on Haven sector tech to SL holdouts?

Weird Harold wrote:Another thought:

How much of any field training team is going to be spies looking for double-crosses and corruption selling-on Haven sector tech to SL holdouts?

Normally we leave that to the Intelligence folks. But people based overseas are instructed to 'keep their eyes open', report any 'suspicious' contacts, and are sometimes debriefed after their tours end.

But when you are working daily(and shoulder to shoulder) with a customer, you try to do your job and get home to your family.

Weird Harold wrote:Oh! Good. Brains to feed on... I mean brains to pick, of course.

After 34 years of more or less dedicated service, it is debatable how much brain I still have available.

That "wide variety" is what I expect former Solarian Systems to require. Especially since I don't expect the GA to be able to handle the demand and/or other arms merchants to offer competing systems and training.

Speaking of competing arms merchants, how likely is it that the Renaissance Factor (or some other empire builder) will get in the Military Assistance game as a way to infiltrate and co-opt neighboring systems?

I think it is very likely. The USSR was a major competitor for major items (not so much these days) and the EU sells a lot. And China is making inroads in Africa and elsewhere for the 'small stuff.'

However, much of the Soviet/Chinese 'training' is basic and tries to foster dependence by the customer on the provider. While the US does that to an extent (transmissions for a Apache or avionics for a F15 for instance, are hard to find out side the USA), we also train to make that nation's folk independent, because our goal is to get our folks out of there, while the Soviets wanted to get into places.

The EU is our main competitor, but what I have heard (second-hand, mind you) is that they suffer from arrogance and think they are training 'neobarbs'.

Which I expect is the way the SLN has gone about it. It irritates people today and I expect It'll irritate them in the future....

Weird Harold wrote:

Hutch wrote:This is a topic I actually know a bit about, as I work in Foreign Military Sales for the US Army.

Oh! Good. Brains to feed on... I mean brains to pick, of course.

Hutch wrote:There is a wide variety of training offered to foreign governments who buy our stuff (I am using US army terms, other services and countries may vary).

That "wide variety" is what I expect former Solarian Systems to require. Especially since I don't expect the GA to be able to handle the demand and/or other arms merchants to offer competing systems and training.


Speaking of competing arms merchants, how likely is it that the Renaissance Factor (or some other empire builder) will get in the Military Assistance game as a way to infiltrate and co-opt neighboring systems?

I would think it incredibly likely. Start out by offering assistance, and then after a couple of attacks on the system, beaten off by the brace assistance of the RF, proposing a mutual defense treaty, and then eventual amalgamation. Granted this could take decades, but the MAlign has been planning for centuries, so what's a few decades to achieve what they are looking for - unless Albrecht and sons decide that they want it all now, and push too fast - then the wheels could come off even faster than they are anyway.

i'd say that they're unlikely to decide that they want it all now. it is possible that they'll decide that they need it all now.

which would still have unfortunate results for their ability to execute, but at least the reason isn't as feckless

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
Speaking of competing arms merchants, how likely is it that the Renaissance Factor (or some other empire builder) will get in the Military Assistance game as a way to infiltrate and co-opt neighboring systems?

I would think it incredibly likely. Start out by offering assistance, and then after a couple of attacks on the system, beaten off by the brace assistance of the RF, proposing a mutual defense treaty, and then eventual amalgamation. Granted this could take decades, but the MAlign has been planning for centuries, so what's a few decades to achieve what they are looking for - unless Albrecht and sons decide that they want it all now, and push too fast - then the wheels could come off even faster than they are anyway.