Question about Beowulf tactics

IIFR al-Fanudahis speculation about the plan to go for Beowulf correctly. The assumption was they wanted to sent a force sufficient to take on the Beowuflian SDF but not the Manticorian Navy. They would therefore withdraw in case of a Manticorian intervention. Since the BSDF has only 36 SDs the 100 SDs force of the Admiral who tried to take the wormhole should be sufficient (plus any other unit the can send along without causing delays). That force is already assembled an can be underway very quickly. The question is, when the want to strike. I am assuming that, they do not want to send a fleet before the result of the vote is in. Also they want some time to fire up public opinion in Sol. The could do some of that before the vote is in, but I am assuming a final push after the election result is in might be advantageous from the Mandarins perspective. Also al-Fanudahis discussions mentioned an "investigation" of the election as a pretext for the attack on Beowulf.

So in conclusion: The strike on Beowulf, should be "some time" after the election.
Of course after the election the political reason not to station GA units near Beowulf is gone.

wastedfly wrote:Nice idea, flesh out time.

So, no translating freighter, dispatch boat, or anyone else will happen to notice 500 SLN SD hanging out in the alpha band at the terminus of the most heavily traffic'd wormhole termini in the galaxy. Hmm. Guess the RMN doesn't have any DD's they place in adjacent hyper bands either!?

Only way possible, is for the SLN to SWAMP the terminus alpha hyper band with hundreds/thousands of ships with the ability to destroy all ships transiting instantly. All RMN ships as well inside graser range. Possible since they know when the fake operation will be undertaken. Then one has to assume times for reaction time, etc. Of course that DD could be chilling in the alpha band 30,000,000 km from the terminus. The SLN doesn't have enough ships in its inventory to swamp an infinite sphere.

0.0% chance at best killing those DD's in the alpha band without them able to translate first outside of pure luck.

Then they hang in the beta band and drop down into the alpha as the GA terminus force translates up. How many bands are the RMN going to picket?

Isn't sensor ranges rather lower in hyperspace, especially the further up one goes?

People keep trying to find ways for SLN SDs to be useful. The only way they can win in combat is to get within 400,000km of manty units, preferably before any missiles or pods have launched. The only way they can do that given the tech disparity in all areas(weapons, sensors, acceleration, defense) is some kind of wall-crossing ambush. But as we saw during Op Icarus, even accomplishing a SDM-range interception of a fixed point defended by forts is difficult, which is why I said it was a long shot.

I don't agree with 0.0%. There's got to be an infinitesimal chance of getting it right, even if they rely on pure luck(and are subsequently banned from every casino in the galaxy). Even if it's one in a centillion.

The problem for the SLN is, training and preparing for this sort of ambush is not a short-notice situation. The Mycroft window(which, btw, the SL doesn't know about), means if they arrive too late, the GA terminus force need not lift a finger, letting Mycroft's controllers do all the work.

"And in the latest post-Beowulf secession news [this is like 24 hrs after the vote is made known, SOL time], the Beowulfan and Manticoran embassies issued a combined press release. Admiral Honor Alexander-Harrington was invited to visit her family in Beowulf for a state visit. In order to guarantee her safety, the SDF commander, (who we met in Mission of Honor) has extended temporary military escort privileges to Admiral Alice Truman and her fleet. This was also done to honor the RMN defense of Beowulfan personnel against illegal SLN military actions..."

Just because two dozen of Truman's ships happen to be freighters stuffed to the deckheads with Mark 25 SDF missiles, and half a dozen of the screen happen to be Sag-Cs, toss in a few Rolands in there...

fallsfromtrees wrote:There has to be at least 20 days worth of integrating all of the disparate elements that have been drawn from so many distant sources, as well as the pissing match between all of the various admirals as to who is going to be in charge or what. Granted you have allocated 9 days for that - Even Haven or Manticore couldn't have shaken down that type of ad hoc group in less than 3 weeks. In addition, Beowulf is 60 ly from Sol. At your estimated 6ly/day that is 10 days, not 8, So we have added 13 days to your schedule, making it day 55 that the attack goes in. Do you really think that there won't have been some major portion of Moriarty in place by day 55? The sollies are toast, butter side down.

Beowulf is 40 light-years from Sol, not 60. Travel time by warships is 5.8 days. So it takes even less time than he thought.

Torlek wrote:IIFR al-Fanudahis speculation about the plan to go for Beowulf correctly. The assumption was they wanted to sent a force sufficient to take on the Beowuflian SDF but not the Manticorian Navy. They would therefore withdraw in case of a Manticorian intervention. Since the BSDF has only 36 SDs the 100 SDs force of the Admiral who tried to take the wormhole should be sufficient (plus any other unit the can send along without causing delays). That force is already assembled an can be underway very quickly. The question is, when the want to strike. I am assuming that, they do not want to send a fleet before the result of the vote is in. Also they want some time to fire up public opinion in Sol. The could do some of that before the vote is in, but I am assuming a final push after the election result is in might be advantageous from the Mandarins perspective. Also al-Fanudahis discussions mentioned an "investigation" of the election as a pretext for the attack on Beowulf.

So in conclusion: The strike on Beowulf, should be "some time" after the election.
Of course after the election the political reason not to station GA units near Beowulf is gone.

I would say that the last sentence of your post is the big one. Do it after and the RMN moves in. After all they want to protect the infrastructure that will provide their primary missile supply. So by waiting they risk repeating Filereta's experience.

Don

n7axw wrote:

Torlek wrote:IIFR al-Fanudahis speculation about the plan to go for Beowulf correctly. The assumption was they wanted to sent a force sufficient to take on the Beowuflian SDF but not the Manticorian Navy. They would therefore withdraw in case of a Manticorian intervention. Since the BSDF has only 36 SDs the 100 SDs force of the Admiral who tried to take the wormhole should be sufficient (plus any other unit the can send along without causing delays). That force is already assembled an can be underway very quickly. The question is, when the want to strike. I am assuming that, they do not want to send a fleet before the result of the vote is in. Also they want some time to fire up public opinion in Sol. The could do some of that before the vote is in, but I am assuming a final push after the election result is in might be advantageous from the Mandarins perspective. Also al-Fanudahis discussions mentioned an "investigation" of the election as a pretext for the attack on Beowulf.

So in conclusion: The strike on Beowulf, should be "some time" after the election.
Of course after the election the political reason not to station GA units near Beowulf is gone.

I would say that the last sentence of your post is the big one. Do it after and the RMN moves in. After all they want to protect the infrastructure that will provide their primary missile supply. So by waiting they risk repeating Filereta's experience.

Don

Also re reading the last chapter of ART, it is clear that they are thinking about attempting to control Beowulf before the plebiscite, as the plan is to declare the actions of the Board of Directors treasonous, which is much more difficult to do if the plebiscite has already been held. On the other hand, they are talking about using the new extended range Technodyne missile pods, and to the best of our knowledge at this point, there are none of them in the Sol system, so you are going to have a number of weeks before they are available. Of course, one of the ways to at least stall the sollies is to have someone slip some of the newsies in Sol system a little tidbit that Beowulf is surrounded by the same sort of missile pods that just destroyed Filareta, even if it is not true at this exact moment. Just the thought should be enough to cause the mandarins to stop and think about what kind of nasty press they will take if it is true and they get yet another fleet turned into dust bunnies. It should cause at least a 1 month delay in the decision loop while they attempt to confirm the fact.

The BSDF, we believe, has SDs reasonably close to design to the SLN.

Beowulf is believed to be facing an attack or "intervention" by the SLN to deal with the vote on leaving or not leaving the SLN

How about this:
Beowulf asks or offeres to by 5 or more former SLN SDs captured by RMN and RHN at the battle of 2nd Manticore.
Beowulf rigs them to be operated by remote control and removes the safeties on the compensators. Part of the modifications include being able to fire the main weaponry, activate the CM defences and EMC. The ships are held in near-Beowulf space with maintenace crews which abandon ship when they are activated.
WHEN the SLN makes their move, the SDs (named such things as BSDF Joe Buckley, the Bernie Madoff, The Quizling, Baron Harkonan,The Ebola) in conjunction with the BSDF to intercept but then sprint ahead. They initialy engage (controlled remotely) with the SLN force at realistic ranges for SLN warships but then go to max acceleration on courses to ram 5 of the SLN ships while fireing as fast as possible (on automatic) with their missile tuber at other ships in the SLN task for (each "new" BNSD SD firing a full folly at one SLN SD then switching to the next closest SLN SD until the remote SD is destroyed -one way or another.

That should seriously mess up the attack pan of the SLN force and inflict massive casualties on that force. The mangled force would still have to meet the regular BSDF units.

Hutch wrote:"George J. Smith"]"SWM"]Snip...


Just for a historical perspective, see the history of the German warships Goeben and Breslau, which ended up serving as "Turkish" warships, with the German crews wearing fezzes (IIRC).

British didn't buy it either....

See here for the fascinating story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_of ... nd_Breslau

[/quote]


The RMN didn't buy it either with 1st / 2nd Yeltsin with coincidentally (not) the PNS Breslau commanded by then Commander Theisman.

The BSDF with GA missile pods should be able to hold the planet, Alice and company will have no problem holding the termanis.

I only wonder if Beowulf has any unoccupied equatorial or tropical islands suitable for a couple hundred thousand or so SLN guests .....

-- Stewart

Brigade XO wrote:The BSDF, we believe, has SDs reasonably close to design to the SLN.

Beowulf is believed to be facing an attack or "intervention" by the SLN to deal with the vote on leaving or not leaving the SLN

How about this:
Beowulf asks or offeres to by 5 or more former SLN SDs captured by RMN and RHN at the battle of 2nd Manticore.
Beowulf rigs them to be operated by remote control and removes the safeties on the compensators. Part of the modifications include being able to fire the main weaponry, activate the CM defences and EMC. The ships are held in near-Beowulf space with maintenace crews which abandon ship when they are activated.
WHEN the SLN makes their move, the SDs (named such things as BSDF Joe Buckley, the Bernie Madoff, The Quizling, Baron Harkonan,The Ebola) in conjunction with the BSDF to intercept but then sprint ahead. They initialy engage (controlled remotely) with the SLN force at realistic ranges for SLN warships but then go to max acceleration on courses to ram 5 of the SLN ships while fireing as fast as possible (on automatic) with their missile tuber at other ships in the SLN task for (each "new" BNSD SD firing a full folly at one SLN SD then switching to the next closest SLN SD until the remote SD is destroyed -one way or another.

That should seriously mess up the attack pan of the SLN force and inflict massive casualties on that force. The mangled force would still have to meet the regular BSDF units.

-----------------

Sorry to disappoint your plans XO, but remember, the captured SLN SD's (1) do not have bow walls, (2) have no FTL.
remote control maneuvering will be very slow -- arthritic even.
Even an BF SLN Adm (if assisted by his / her tac and ops officers) should be able to arrange down-the-throat shots. The RMN and RHN have not had to worry about that for several years.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:The BSDF, we believe, has SDs reasonably close to design to the SLN.

Beowulf is believed to be facing an attack or "intervention" by the SLN to deal with the vote on leaving or not leaving the SLN

How about this:
Beowulf asks or offeres to by 5 or more former SLN SDs captured by RMN and RHN at the battle of 2nd Manticore.
Beowulf rigs them to be operated by remote control and removes the safeties on the compensators. Part of the modifications include being able to fire the main weaponry, activate the CM defences and EMC. The ships are held in near-Beowulf space with maintenace crews which abandon ship when they are activated.
WHEN the SLN makes their move, the SDs (named such things as BSDF Joe Buckley, the Bernie Madoff, The Quizling, Baron Harkonan,The Ebola) in conjunction with the BSDF to intercept but then sprint ahead. They initialy engage (controlled remotely) with the SLN force at realistic ranges for SLN warships but then go to max acceleration on courses to ram 5 of the SLN ships while fireing as fast as possible (on automatic) with their missile tuber at other ships in the SLN task for (each "new" BNSD SD firing a full folly at one SLN SD then switching to the next closest SLN SD until the remote SD is destroyed -one way or another.

That should seriously mess up the attack pan of the SLN force and inflict massive casualties on that force. The mangled force would still have to meet the regular BSDF units.

-----------------

Sorry to disappoint your plans XO, but remember, the captured SLN SD's (1) do not have bow walls, (2) have no FTL.
remote control maneuvering will be very slow -- arthritic even.
Even an BF SLN Adm (if assisted by his / her tac and ops officers) should be able to arrange down-the-throat shots. The RMN and RHN have not had to worry about that for several years.

-- Stewart

Not if in fact the computers have been slightly upgraded, so that there is no need for remote control after the order to go is given. And if the SDs in question start broadcasting surrender offers, they might get close enough to actually do some damage. They will be moving at something like 2000 gs without any humans on board, and the compensators offline. And if they get shot up, at least they have caused the sollies to expend a bunch of munitions, perhaps even most of their pods.