A question about the destruction of Admiral Filareta

Bill Woods wrote:

Zakharra wrote: [Filareta's bridge] was sabotaged by the nanites and an agent. The nanites to launch the missile pods then input the code to set off the explosive the agent put in place. Which makes me wonder if that agent is alive still or not since she would have stood a very good chance of being killed in the ensuing fight.

Bill Woods wrote: If he was planning to stay aboard, he'd do better to plant a bug on the bridge and if need be set off the bomb himself, like the Gaul in Cauldron, rather than relying on the nanite trigger.

SWM wrote:I'm pretty sure the agent was not on the ship. The sabotage was done well beforehand.

Zakharra wrote: The tech that installed the bomb was a member of the crew; enlisted technician. and as the ship was waiting with the rest of the fleet at their staging area, there is nowhere she could have gone after setting the bomb. She was on that flagship when the missiles fired. There's no other place she could have gone.

Malign agents aren't noted for self-sacrifice; I rather doubt she had any intention of staying aboard a ship she was trying to ensure would be destroyed. If the agent can forge a work order that got her onto the flag bridge, I expect she could forge orders transferring herself to one of the ships that wasn't going with the Sollies' Grande Armada. E.g., one of the ships that brought the missile pods from Mesa.

I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.

Zakharra wrote: I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.

As examples, Hercules leaving Spindle so fast crew on shore leave had to chase her in pinnaces.

There was that rigmarole of Commodore Harrington's flagship transferring an air scrubber to Captain McKeon's cruiser. Squadron level.

Another is how many pinnaces were thrown around at Hancock, when Parks called his captains and flag officers in for the war warning briefing. Task force level.

11th Fleet was the biggest ever assembled. There are hundreds of legitimate reasons for small crafts to be swarming back and forth before they set off, never mind all the old boys getting together for a drink and a quip about "Last one on Manticore buys the next round".

Harder didn't need official transfer orders. She just had to blag a seat on a flight going somewhere safer than a Solly SD, then basically go AWOL. Unfortunately for her, the MA likes to tie up loose ends...

Zakharra wrote: I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.

Falsify? I can assure you that was a totally legitimate transfer order issued by Navy Personnel Command due to a need to assign PO Harder to support the Admiralty communications team. I understand certain officers felt there might be a sudden need for someone with her special expertise and wanted her on hand.

kzt wrote:

Zakharra wrote: I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.

Falsify? I can assure you that was a totally legitimate transfer order issued by Navy Personnel Command due to a need to assign PO Harder to support the Admiralty communications team. I understand certain officers felt there might be a sudden need for someone with her special expertise and wanted her on hand.

I'm just saying that it would be harder to falsify (looking legitimate or now) transfer orders than a maintenance work order. And more suspicious.

Zakharra wrote: I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.

kzt wrote:Falsify? I can assure you that was a totally legitimate transfer order issued by Navy Personnel Command due to a need to assign PO Harder to support the Admiralty communications team. I understand certain officers felt there might be a sudden need for someone with her special expertise and wanted her on hand.

Zakharra wrote: I'm just saying that it would be harder to falsify (looking legitimate or now) transfer orders than a maintenance work order. And more suspicious.

But no need. There would have been any number of pinnaces and shuttles going to the planet to pick up supplies/personnel. All she needs is a work order to pick up XYZ classified component from the planet depot to justify a place on one of them, and then once planet side - poof over the horizon.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Zakharra wrote: I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.

kzt wrote:Falsify? I can assure you that was a totally legitimate transfer order issued by Navy Personnel Command due to a need to assign PO Harder to support the Admiralty communications team. I understand certain officers felt there might be a sudden need for someone with her special expertise and wanted her on hand.

Zakharra wrote: I'm just saying that it would be harder to falsify (looking legitimate or now) transfer orders than a maintenance work order. And more suspicious.

But no need. There would have been any number of pinnaces and shuttles going to the planet to pick up supplies/personnel. All she needs is a work order to pick up XYZ classified component from the planet depot to justify a place on one of them, and then once planet side - poof over the horizon.

Could it be that she believed that what she was rigging up under that console was something valid rather than a bomb and thus was an innocent tool?

Don

Zakharra wrote: I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.

kzt wrote:Falsify? I can assure you that was a totally legitimate transfer order issued by Navy Personnel Command due to a need to assign PO Harder to support the Admiralty communications team. I understand certain officers felt there might be a sudden need for someone with her special expertise and wanted her on hand.

Zakharra wrote: I'm just saying that it would be harder to falsify (looking legitimate or now) transfer orders than a maintenance work order. And more suspicious.

fallsfromtrees wrote:But no need. There would have been any number of pinnaces and shuttles going to the planet to pick up supplies/personnel. All she needs is a work order to pick up XYZ classified component from the planet depot to justify a place on one of them, and then once planet side - poof over the horizon.

n7axw wrote:
Could it be that she believed that what she was rigging up under that console was something valid rather than a bomb and thus was an innocent tool?

Don

Certainly a possibility to keep in mind, in which case I would have expected her life expectancy to have been quite short - even before the ships left orbit to invade Manticore, since as as been pointed out, the MAlign is not real big on leaving loose ends, and there was no guarantee that she wouldn't survive the destruction of Filareta's fleet.

Hi guys,

Please reread the original textev.

She was a MAlign agent, she knew it was a bomb when she installed it, and she left the ship long before it went to Manticore.

Given how easy it was to get access to the flag bridge with her bomb, I don't think she had any problem getting off the ship and disappearing.

I kinda think that was one of RFC's points describing the scene.

This turn of the thread must be giving him the giggles.

How can he respect us when he's laughing so hard?

L


*quote="fallsfromtrees"**quote="Zakharra"*
I seriously doubt that. Those were supply ships, why would anyone transfer off a warship to a supply freighter? Transfer orders like that would tend to be noticed because it would be unusual, unless a whole slew of people got transferred off. Also the ship she would have transferred to would have had to be notified otherwise he/she would be reporting a stowaway. Falsifying a work order for maintenance is less difficult than falsifying transfer orders.*quote**quote="kzt"*
Falsify? I can assure you that was a totally legitimate transfer order issued by Navy Personnel Command due to a need to assign PO Harder to support the Admiralty communications team. I understand certain officers felt there might be a sudden need for someone with her special expertise and wanted her on hand.*quote**quote="Zakharra"*
I'm just saying that it would be harder to falsify (looking legitimate or now) transfer orders than a maintenance work order. And more suspicious.**quote**quote="fallsfromtrees"*
But no need. There would have been any number of pinnaces and shuttles going to the planet to pick up supplies/personnel. All she needs is a work order to pick up XYZ classified component from the planet depot to justify a place on one of them, and then once planet side - poof over the horizon.*quote**quote="n7axw"*

Could it be that she believed that what she was rigging up under that console was something valid rather than a bomb and thus was an innocent tool?

Don*quote*
Certainly a possibility to keep in mind, in which case I would have expected her life expectancy to have been quite short - even before the ships left orbit to invade Manticore, since as as been pointed out, the MAlign is not real big on leaving loose ends, and there was no guarantee that she wouldn't survive the destruction of Filareta's fleet.*quote*

Hutch wrote:
That's why I said that the BC's and CA's would not be messing around and letting Filareta fall into the trap designed by Grand Fleet. Figuring that Gryphon is a little farther away from the hyper limit (does anybody have that number?), I'd give him one warning and then launch

Jumping back on this - because I can't help myself.

House of Steel has this info in the Manticoran Binary System section:
Manticore-A hyper limit: 22.0 LM
Sphinx Orbit: 21.2 LM
Manticore Orbit: 11.5 LM

Manticore-B hyper limit: 21.1 LM
Gryphon Orbit: 11.4 LM

So Gryphon (at 9.7 LM inside the limit) is marginally more exposed than Manticore (10.5 LM in), but much deeper in than Sphinx (0.8 LM).


Though I'm ignoring that at certain times of their years the Junction's RZ provides significant additional depth for Manticore and/or Sphinx -- but won't do the same for Gryphon. At least not for a century or so, when Manticore-B orbits closer to the Junction.
If I didn't totally screw things up I believe the Manticore Binary system stars complete an orbit around each other once every 238.85 years

Jonathan_S wrote:...least not for a century or so, when Manticore-B orbits closer to the Junction.
If I didn't totally screw things up I believe the Manticore Binary system stars complete an orbit around each other once every 238.85 years

I'm not sure but, I don't recall it actually listing where in it's orbit Mc-B happens to be at this particular time. I do know it's still somewhat distant from the junction/junction-Mc-A traffic, but that doesn't mean on the opposite side of the system, or even if it's approaching or receding from it. It could be just a few degrees off & still several light minutes from the traffic. Anyone have the specifics on where it is in orbit? Also I would have to think that the junction itself actually orbits Mc-A (nothing in space is "absolutely fixed").