Information I'd love to know

--snipping--
For the hyperlimits of stars:
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... ngton/93/1

JeffEngel wrote:It's a matter of the stellar (or other body) mass. Wormholes also mess up hyper transits in an area between them and the primary.

Translations into or out of hyper may not be possible at certain high velocities. I do not have the details that way on the top of my head or with an easy reference though - surely someone else will.

Into is limited to .3C, per HotQ as CA-286 Fearless and Convoy are headed for Grayson. Downward translations cause a speed dump which I think takes it below the .3C limit pretty much no matter what, but after that it's a how fast are you going to try to cross the alpha wall vs. closeness to the hyper limit.

Echoes of Honor wrote: A ship which attempted to translate out of hyper inside a star's hyper limit couldn't. As long as it made the attempt within the outer twenty percent of the hyper limit, all that happened was that it couldn't get into n-space. If it made the attempt any further in than that, however, Bad Things happened. Someone had once described the result as using a pulse cannon to fire soft-boiled eggs at a stone wall to see if they would bounce. Lester Tourville rather doubted they would, and even if he was wrong, it was a proposition he had no desire at all to test firsthand.

That's why good astrogators always shave the margin close but not too close.

Hi Hutch,

There were 32 BC's, 48 CL's and 30 DD's in Filareta's screen, IIRC.

We have textev from ART [chapter 24] and SoF [Baroness Medusa] etc, that all the marines were captured along with the FF screen and support ships; ie they were all together with Filareta when he got smeared albeit far enough back not to get targeted, and no SLN units were hiding in hyper because Filareta wished he'd been smart enough to "have left a couple DD's to watch the back door" but he hadn't, so your suggestion the rest were waiting someplace in hyper doesn't work for a couple reasons.

I've always added them to those captured at Spindle, NTM Meyers and New Tuscany for over 180 [maybe 190] FF warships.

L

Hutch wrote:Yeah, Shark Hunter, that's about how I see it.

And as for capturing them, well, there is no mention of any RMN/RH/Grayson BC's or smaller screening units either in the textev.

I wonder where they were at....

lyonheart wrote:Hi Hutch,

There were 32 BC's, 48 CL's and 30 DD's in Filareta's screen, IIRC.

We have textev from ART [chapter 24] and SoF [Baroness Medusa] etc, that all the marines were captured along with the FF screen and support ships; ie they were all together with Filareta when he got smeared albeit far enough back not to get targeted, and no SLN units were hiding in hyper because Filareta wished he'd been smart enough to "have left a couple DD's to watch the back door" but he hadn't, so your suggestion the rest were waiting someplace in hyper doesn't work for a couple reasons.

I've always added them to those captured at Spindle, NTM Meyers and New Tuscany for over 180 [maybe 190] FF warships.

L

L;

I just scanned SoF and couldn't find the Medusa remarks you mention (I'm reading the early E-ARC, so it could have been added), and I am re-reading ART on this and other discussions but I haven't gotten to Ch24 yet, but I see no reason to disagree with you.

So I was laboring under a false sense of knowledge--much like Filareta, in a way...of course, I don't think I will be blown up due to my miscalculation....

saber964 wrote:

Hutch wrote:Yeah, Shark Hunter, that's about how I see it.

And as for capturing them, well, there is no mention of any RMN/RH/Grayson BC's or smaller screening units either in the textev.

I wonder where they were at....

There is, IIRC FADM Alexander-Harrington sent most if not all of her lighter warships to Gryphon to if possible reprise the Battle of Spindle.

You are quite right, saber, I'm re-reading ART to check on several things and I completely forgot that.

Which does beg the question of what would happen if Filareta had defied his orders and gone for Gryphon. Given that there were probably 75-100 Aggies and Nikes and the same number of Sag-A/B/C's there, along with thousands of Apollo and System defense Pods, the result might have been even bloodier (BC's and CA's are not going to let SD's, no matter how outclassed, get within their firing range; they would have launched from a minimum of 30M KM's with every missile they had).

And in re-reading ART, it crossed Filareta mind to go directly at Manticore (the planet), due to it's position in the system, but he rejected it as too risky in taking his fleet that far away from the hyper limit. If he had tried that, I am presuming that Admiral Higgins and say 48 SD's from Home Fleet, with ample pods, would have been waiting for him and the result would have been about the same.

Anyway you look at it, he was screwed.

--snipping--

Hutch wrote:
You are quite right, saber, I'm re-reading ART to check on several things and I completely forgot that.

Which does beg the question of what would happen if Filareta had defied his orders and gone for Gryphon...

Dang, give that man a position at Saganmi Island, didn't even consider those options.... IN fact... I'm hijacking the quote over to the "destruction of Admiral Filerata" threa because that was a rather brilliant analysis. Which is of course all we can attempt for the next year or so until the MWW offers us more clues.

Hi Hutch,

I'm sorry, my kindle is acting up; it says its too low battery to use when I had to disconnect it to try to find the chapter in SoF.

It began a chapter and was her reaction to the news of Filareta's defeat; that at least this time there weren't so many Manticoran casualties, IIRC it was just before Khumalo broached Mike's news regarding Mobius, before the news of Filareta got to Mike.

L

Hutch wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Hutch,

There were 32 BC's, 48 CL's and 30 DD's in Filareta's screen, IIRC.

We have textev from ART [chapter 24] and SoF [Baroness Medusa] etc, that all the marines were captured along with the FF screen and support ships; ie they were all together with Filareta when he got smeared albeit far enough back not to get targeted, and no SLN units were hiding in hyper because Filareta wished he'd been smart enough to "have left a couple DD's to watch the back door" but he hadn't, so your suggestion the rest were waiting someplace in hyper doesn't work for a couple reasons.

I've always added them to those captured at Spindle, NTM Meyers and New Tuscany for over 180 [maybe 190] FF warships.

L

L;

I just scanned SoF and couldn't find the Medusa remarks you mention (I'm reading the early E-ARC, so it could have been added), and I am re-reading ART on this and other discussions but I haven't gotten to Ch24 yet, but I see no reason to disagree with you.

So I was laboring under a false sense of knowledge--much like Filareta, in a way...of course, I don't think I will be blown up due to my miscalculation....

Hi SharkHunter,

While Filareta considered all of these options, he predictably chose what his orders dictated, so HH-A was waiting for him.

Given he barely had 6 times the SD's Crandall brought to Spindle, Gryphon's defenders would have needed only 6 times the fire control Terekhov had, ie the equivalent of 72 Sag-C heavy cruisers, and I'd bet they had several times that before counting the number of Mycroft's, etc.

L

SharkHunter wrote:--snipping--

Hutch wrote:
You are quite right, saber, I'm re-reading ART to check on several things and I completely forgot that.

Which does beg the question of what would happen if Filareta had defied his orders and gone for Gryphon...

Dang, give that man a position at Saganmi Island, didn't even consider those options.... IN fact... I'm hijacking the quote over to the "destruction of Admiral Filerata" threa because that was a rather brilliant analysis. Which is of course all we can attempt for the next year or so until the MWW offers us more clues.

[quote="Hutch"]Here's one I have puzzled over. What happened to the rest of Filareta's Fleet?

I mean, we know that he sailed with about twenty+ BCs' thirty or so Cruisers, and some destroyers (I don't have the book in front of me) and support ships and troop carriers for over 400,000 Marines.

And all ART mentions are the Sollie SD's. Not a hint of the fate of over 100 ships and over 1/2 million personnel.

---------------

Hutch --

No text Ev, but I suspect they are encamped on some Sphinxian equatorial or tropical isle (a la Thimble or Haven example) since Sphinx has a few LARGE carnivorous ocean creatures that provide an excellent perimeter guard.

There were obviously many captured, since Pat Givens and her staff were conducting interviews, but their location is my speculation.

-- Stewart

Hi Stewart,

The end of chapter 9 ART, the last page or two in the dead tree versions, says he had 32 BC's 30 CL's and 48 DD's as his FF screen [sorry I confused the last two numbers above-yes my kindle is now working again].

It also includes the 50 fast freighter/personnel transports, totaling almost 600 starships, with over 2.7 million naval personnel [including the freighter and transport crews], besides the 421,000 marines aboard the transports.

While I can get to 2.7 million naval personnel without adding the freighter/fast transport crews if the SD's carry more than 6000 crewmen; if that is the limit, the freighter/fast transports average around 680 each to top 2.7 million, which presumably includes all the stewards to cater to the marines on board.

Since its the BF that was the threat, the lack of detail isn't surprising.

OTOH, it could have been another publisher's excision to eliminate RFC's wordiness.

Perhaps RFC can clarify this at some point when writing isn't so critical.

L

stewart wrote:

Hutch wrote:Here's one I have puzzled over. What happened to the rest of Filareta's Fleet?

I mean, we know that he sailed with about twenty+ BCs' thirty or so Cruisers, and some destroyers (I don't have the book in front of me) and support ships and troop carriers for over 400,000 Marines.

And all ART mentions are the Sollie SD's. Not a hint of the fate of over 100 ships and over 1/2 million personnel.

---------------

Hutch --

No text Ev, but I suspect they are encamped on some Sphinxian equatorial or tropical isle (a la Thimble or Haven example) since Sphinx has a few LARGE carnivorous ocean creatures that provide an excellent perimeter guard.

There were obviously many captured, since Pat Givens and her staff were conducting interviews, but their location is my speculation.

-- Stewart

Torlek wrote:Do we know how far you have to be from a wormhole to get into hyper?

You can jump into hyper even from within the Manticoran Junction's resonance zone (the most powerful / dangerous one known). It's rough on the ships, but you can do it. It's dropping out of hyper into an RZ that's deadly.

(Though I'd suspect you can't jump into normal hyper from within the entry or exit grav 'lane' of the wormhole; ie while still close enough that you can use sails for propulsion in n-space)


But how close you can exit hyper space to a wormhole is a function of direction and (probably) wormhole strength. A junction, like Manticore's makes a much more powerful rezonance; and hence a much more dangerous RZ. It's possible that you can jump into the RZ of a low-mass limit wormhole bridge; at least if you're close enough to the system (aka far enough from the wormhole). Now I can't recall that we've ever been told that - but it wouldn't really surprise me if it was true.

However you can always jump in close to the wormhole in a direction the RZ doesn't go.