RFC's take on what the Royal Torch Navy might need...

JeffEngel wrote:* I assume the Atlas liners have armor similar to older BC's too. If not, then that doesn't apply so much. On the other hand, they're specifically designed for luxury passage, so converting them to CLAC's (or much of anything else) would mean wasting a lot of money spend on chandeliers and platinum-lined toilets. Starting from scratch, or a freighter hull, gets to be more appealing.

The Atlas liners do not have any armor at all.

Regarding my probably bad idea for an Atlas "conversion"...
--snipping--

JeffEngel wrote:To get that kind of internal volume, you'd be ripping up all the very hard armor and rearranging everything inside.* Freighters get to be internal LAC carriers because they're mostly just empty space inside. CLAC's get to be internal LAC carriers because they're designed from the beginning that way. And in both cases, it's because they're a lot larger than 1m tons.

My bad, and I should have been clearer, but lost my train of thought discussing the idea of pulling hull plating.. Originally I wasn't thinking of converting an existing liner, I meant -- with Klaus being ticked off at the MAlign, supporting the ASL, etc. and for perhaps a similar cost to a pair of all up RTN frigates, the Hauptman yards would take an Atlas liner "size" hull form that hasn't been closed up yet, probably just at the point of the tac suite/missile tube installs aka no installed passenger cubage, decks, platinum plated plumbing fixtures, chandeliers, etc.

That would allow Klaus to use the best minds he can beg/borrow/pay or steal briefly to finish the design specs before putting in the bays, hull plating, and likely some light armoring. I imagine that the main stockholder for Sky Domes of Grayson might be willing to make a megatonnage donation of any needed supplies for that effort.

Keep in mind that the only point to anything besides the marines is to support their landing/boarding ops from getting jumped on by enemy ships after the operation has begun.

There are no Hauptmann yards. They all blowed up.

kzt wrote:There are no Hauptmann yards. They all blowed up.

Didn't realize that those yards got Oyster Bay'd, thought it was just the RMN shipyards. Weren't the cartel yards supposed to be more out near the Unicorn Asteroid belts?

SharkHunter wrote:

kzt wrote:There are no Hauptmann yards. They all blowed up.

Didn't realize that those yards got Oyster Bay'd, thought it was just the RMN shipyards. Weren't the cartel yards supposed to be more out near the Unicorn Asteroid belts?

The word from David when we asked that very question was that the Unicorn Belt yards were not anywhere near said belt, but located on the Weyland station.

It appeaars that all the Cartel (civilian) shipyards are co-located on the 3 stations as well.

....and the other 300,000,000 people living in Manticore B space (yes, count them - the Y2K population of the USA) are all in the Ore extraction business and entertainment industries.

In short, everyone feels it is a retcon, but that's the way it is at Manticore in 1922.

Theemile wrote:

kzt and Sharkhunter wrote:There are no Hauptmann yards. They all blowed up.

Didn't realize that those yards got Oyster Bay'd, thought it was just the RMN shipyards. Weren't the cartel yards supposed to be more out near the Unicorn Asteroid belts?

The word from David when we asked that very question was that the Unicorn Belt yards were not anywhere near said belt, but located on the Weyland station.

It appears that all the Cartel (civilian) shipyards are co-located on the 3 stations as well.

....and the other 300,000,000 people living in Manticore B space (yes, count them - the Y2K population of the USA) are all in the Ore extraction business and entertainment industries.

In short, everyone feels it is a retcon, but that's the way it is at Manticore in 1922.

ohboy.... So the MAlign in one day has now totally pissed off four of the richest people in Manticoran space: (QEIII, Cathy M., Klaus, and Honor)...

Hundreds of years of planning, and now you've got motivated gazillionaires and treecats out for your blood. Given that said gazillionaires are on good relations with four of five of the deadliest space navies. (it'll be 5 for 5 once Maya is fully equipped...)

Bad plan, very very bad.

SharkHunter wrote:ohboy.... So the MAlign in one day has now totally pissed off four of the richest people in Manticoran space: (QEIII, Cathy M., Klaus, and Honor)...

Hundreds of years of planning, and now you've got motivated gazillionaires and treecats out for your blood. Given that said gazillionaires are on good relations with four of five of the deadliest space navies. (it'll be 5 for 5 once Maya is fully equipped...)

Bad plan, very very bad.

That will be 6 - Erewhon is getting the same hardware Maya is getting. (officially, it is all Erewhon's)

SharkHunter wrote:ohboy.... So the MAlign in one day has now totally pissed off four of the richest people in Manticoran space: (QEIII, Cathy M., Klaus, and Honor)...

Klaus & company are too busy trying to keep afloat to worry about doing anything else right now. Exactly how are they planning to deliver all the ships people have paid for? How about the goods they have contracted to deliver where the factory blew up? Ships on long-term contracts to places where they are no longer allowed to travel? How are the notes on those ships being paid? Salaries for the thousands of ships crews? How many people did they get to pay death benefits for? They are in a HORRIBLE cash flow crisis.

kzt wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:ohboy.... So the MAlign in one day has now totally pissed off four of the richest people in Manticoran space: (QEIII, Cathy M., Klaus, and Honor)...

Klaus & company are too busy trying to keep afloat to worry about doing anything else right now. Exactly how are they planning to deliver all the ships people have paid for? How about the goods they have contracted to deliver where the factory blew up? Ships on long-term contracts to places where they are no longer allowed to travel? How are the notes on those ships being paid? Salaries for the thousands of ships crews? How many people did they get to pay death benefits for? They are in a HORRIBLE cash flow crisis.

Very good points on the "cash flow" problem, but that's all of Manticore right now, and Beowulf seems to be buying a lot of war bonds, which will get all of the major shipbuilders back in action.
Meanwhile... I think the Hauptman Cartel is likely still doing pretty well. They've still got all of the Silesian trade routes which were previously listed as a major revenue source [and is likely a stabilizing market], plus an abundance of any withdrawn ships from the SL they can use to serve new markets in the Haven system(s), or up-serve markets in the Andermani empire, more trade with the Talbott, Maya, and Madras Sectors, etc.

I'd think the second tier ship builders, etc. are pretty much toast for a longer term, however.

SharkHunter wrote:

kzt wrote:Klaus & company are too busy trying to keep afloat to worry about doing anything else right now. Exactly how are they planning to deliver all the ships people have paid for? How about the goods they have contracted to deliver where the factory blew up? Ships on long-term contracts to places where they are no longer allowed to travel? How are the notes on those ships being paid? Salaries for the thousands of ships crews? How many people did they get to pay death benefits for? They are in a HORRIBLE cash flow crisis.

Very good points on the "cash flow" problem, but that's all of Manticore right now, and Beowulf seems to be buying a lot of war bonds, which will get all of the major shipbuilders back in action.
Meanwhile... I think the Hauptman Cartel is likely still doing pretty well. They've still got all of the Silesian trade routes which were previously listed as a major revenue source [and is likely a stabilizing market, plus an abundance of any withdrawn ships from the SL they can use to serve new markets in the Haven system(s), or up-serve markets in the Andermani empire, more trade with the Talbott, Maya, and Madras Sectors, etc.

I'd think the second tier ship builders, etc. are pretty much toast for a longer term, however.

Silensia (~65 planets)and the Andermani (~30 planets) were already in the RMMM's basket - Haven and former planets are ~300 in number. The SL is just shy of 1800 heavily populated planets and the protectorates are somewhere between 200 and 1000 strong. So gaining Haven gains the RMMM a market <1/10 the size of the SL. Talbott is quickly maturing, but that's only 16 sparcely to moderately populated worlds.

The SL contained almost 2/3rds of Humanity (from The Universe of Honor Harrington), and the RMMM moved ~40% of it's trade. Nothing is going to make that all up.

In a "real world" senario, I don't know how any of the RMN conglomerates would survive in a recognizable form.