HFQ Official Snippet #15 Merry Christmas!

McGuiness wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:There is no evidence that the defense systems of the Rakurai operate in atmosphere. The SNARCs that were destroyed were attempting to approach the system, but they were not necessarily (not even probably) in atmosphere when they were. And Laser's will tend to dissipate in atmosphere over kilometer and greater distances due to air scattering, so it is not clear that you could use a laser weapon on a flyer in atmosphere, and if you are dealing with a constant moving target, hitting it with a rock from space is not all that difficult feat of calculation. We have no textev that this has ever been done however.

Since Merlin is concerned that the skimmer may be shot down by the OBS, there's clearly some sort of Terran Federation weapon built into it that can take down an aircraft flying at supersonic speeds. Note that Merlin has never been concerned that the OBS might destroy the entire countryside over which he happens to be flying.

So if the OBS doesn't have offensive lasers sufficiently powerful to penetrate the atmosphere, it obviously has something less drastic than making a crater the size of a city in order to take down a recon skimmer.

I think you have a valid point. However RFC has observed that the archangels would have been careful to set things up to avoid avoid having the OBS shoot them down. By using the same tech, Merlin is really hiding in the archangels shadows since the OBS doesn't distinguish between him and the archangels.

Don

n7axw wrote:I think you have a valid point. However RFC has observed that the archangels would have been careful to set things up to avoid avoid having the OBS shoot them down. By using the same tech, Merlin is really hiding in the archangels shadows since the OBS doesn't distinguish between him and the archangels.

Don

Exactly the point I made a few messages ago: "He [Merlin] postulated that recon skimmers are programmed out of the Rakurai's targeting algorithm, otherwise the archangels would have gotten shot out of the sky every time they tried to fly somewhere, which wouldn't have made them look particularly divine!"

The fun question is whether the OBS would ignore the assault shuttle...

fallsfromtrees wrote:
There is no evidence that the defense systems of the Rakurai operate in atmosphere. The SNARCs that were destroyed were attempting to approach the system, but they were not necessarily (not even probably) in atmosphere when they were. And Laser's will tend to dissipate in atmosphere over kilometer and greater distances due to air scattering, so it is not clear that you could use a laser weapon on a flyer in atmosphere, and if you are dealing with a constant moving target, hitting it with a rock from space is not all that difficult feat of calculation. We have no textev that this has ever been done however.

High power lasers have different dispersion characteristics to low power lasers. Whilst low power lasers are scattered by atmospheric dust and gases, high power lasers remove the dust (and the gases) from their paths. The US Air Force actually found a self focusing effect with their airborne laser weapons in the atmosphere (the atmosphere became an optical fiber surrounding the beam). That said you do lose some of the energy keeping the beam path clear (maintaining a plasma tube chews through beam power).
If you have a platform able to accelerate a multi-ton projectile to single digit fractions of light speed, the power required to punch a laser to ground level through 30 miles of atmosphere is minor.
Why use a laser - lasers are light speed so you get little or no warning and fragile structures (like most flight vehicles) are very vulnerable. Kinetic impactors are much slower and a good early warning radar system makes them dodgable (unless you are bolted to the ground) (or killable if you have your own counter battery launcher), particularly if you are super, or better hyper, sonic capable (you can out run the blast).
Lasers are poor for hitting ground targets as melting rock takes a lot of power over a long period and obscures the target with opaque plasma, a kinetic impactor delivers more energy in a much shorter interval. Horses for courses, and energy is not energy (contrary to what some poorly trained physicists will tell you, energy transfer characteristics really matter).
Note - one way to accelerate a kinetic impactor would be by laser ablation (or a really long time and a mirror on the back-end (time because mirrors aren't perfect and absorb some energy, at even at 99% reflectivity a 1MW laser is dumping 10kW into the mirror surface, at 1GW this is 10MW - mirror vaporizes)).

AirTech wrote:SNIP Horses for courses, and energy is not energy .

I'm guessing that's not quite what you ment...?

McGuiness wrote:

n7axw wrote:There is no record of the OBS hitting a moving target which is an improbable idea with a kinetic bombardment system.
Also no one knows at this point if the OBS is run on automatics or if it needs commands from the outside. In fact though Owl proved that the defensive side is working, no one knows if the OBS itself is still functional.

Don

There's two possible responses from the OBS that would prove it's working on automatics in offensive mode.

First, it could shoot down a skimmer/assault shuttle/airplane, etc. That would only require the use of its lasers, so the damage would be limited to the machine in flight. That's what Merlin worries about when he flies the skimmer at very high speeds.

Second, it could bombard any form of technology that violates the Proscriptions, such as an electric generator. Hopefully it's programmed to use its lasers whenever possible to minimize collateral damage, but knowing the wackos who created it, they weren't likely to err on the side of caution, so forbidden tech that isn't flying would probably be obliterated via bombardment for maximum effect.

If the good guys didn't have to worry about waking up whatever is under the temple and didn't care about innocent civilians, firing up electrical generators in the middle of the CoGA armies would bring a quick but extremely violent end to the war...

But it doesn't want to "minimize damage". It wants to maximize the damage to demonstrate to the world what happens when you violate the proscriptions. Shock and Awe all the way.

Regardless of whether or not the OBS can hit a fast flying vehicle in flight, you better not have anything you want to keep pretty at it's takeoff and landing points!

Randomiser wrote:Regardless of whether or not the OBS can hit a fast flying vehicle in flight, you better not have anything you want to keep pretty at it's takeoff and landing points!

Once it decides to start looking for you, at least. Bear in mind that the skimmer is taking off and landing all the time right now with impunity.

Don

n7axw wrote:

tootall wrote:I'm still wondering why Merlin -et al- allowed Sandaria Ghatfryd to come along.
It takes both Merlin AND Nimue out of play. ??? And depending on their reactions -someone will have to baby-sit one or both these folks for some time to come.
We lose one (in chess terms) or both our of our queens.
I am sure our esteemed author is aware of this "problem", but I can't see why he did it.

From the way it was portrayed, it was one of those decisions that happened rather quickly that is looking a bit iffy right now. But bear in mind that it could still turn out ok.

Nimue and Merlin don't necessarily have to be the baby sitters. Imagine Father Paityr taking a sabbatical for a couple of weeks. Or Olyvia Baytz going on vacation. How about Hektor and Irys going on a get away. The point is that the are all sorts of very good baby sitters available...

Don

I would expect it to be Olyvia - Father Paityr is far to visible and his absence would be noted. I think the combination of Olyvia and Narhman would be sufficient to prevent any unfortunate surprises from Sandaria, and as Princess Dowager, Olyvia can pretty much do as she pleases out of the public eye.

tootall wrote:I'm still wondering why Merlin -et al- allowed Sandaria Ghatfryd to come along.
It takes both Merlin AND Nimue out of play. ??? And depending on their reactions -someone will have to baby-sit one or both these folks for some time to come.
We lose one (in chess terms) or both our of our queens.
I am sure our esteemed author is aware of this "problem", but I can't see why he did it.

n7axw wrote:From the way it was portrayed, it was one of those decisions that happened rather quickly that is looking a bit iffy right now. But bear in mind that it could still turn out ok.

Nimue and Merlin don't necessarily have to be the baby sitters. Imagine Father Paityr taking a sabbatical for a couple of weeks. Or Olyvia Baytz going on vacation. How about Hektor and Irys going on a get away. The point is that the are all sorts of very good baby sitters available...

Don

Hildum wrote:
I would expect it to be Olyvia - Father Paityr is far to visible and his absence would be noted. I think the combination of Olyvia and Narhman would be sufficient to prevent any unfortunate surprises from Sandaria, and as Princess Dowager, Olyvia can pretty much do as she pleases out of the public eye.

Not to mention that Paityr is up to his eyebrows in work for the Patent office - he is needed in Tellesburg - which reaises the interesting question of what happened to the intendants in Chisholm, Corisande, Emerald, Tarot, and Zebidiah

fallsfromtrees wrote:

tootall wrote:I'm still wondering why Merlin -et al- allowed Sandaria Ghatfryd to come along.
It takes both Merlin AND Nimue out of play. ??? And depending on their reactions -someone will have to baby-sit one or both these folks for some time to come.
We lose one (in chess terms) or both our of our queens.
I am sure our esteemed author is aware of this "problem", but I can't see why he did it.

n7axw wrote:From the way it was portrayed, it was one of those decisions that happened rather quickly that is looking a bit iffy right now. But bear in mind that it could still turn out ok.

Nimue and Merlin don't necessarily have to be the baby sitters. Imagine Father Paityr taking a sabbatical for a couple of weeks. Or Olyvia Baytz going on vacation. How about Hektor and Irys going on a get away. The point is that the are all sorts of very good baby sitters available...

Don

Hildum wrote:
I would expect it to be Olyvia - Father Paityr is far to visible and his absence would be noted. I think the combination of Olyvia and Narhman would be sufficient to prevent any unfortunate surprises from Sandaria, and as Princess Dowager, Olyvia can pretty much do as she pleases out of the public eye.

Not to mention that Paityr is up to his eyebrows in work for the Patent office - he is needed in Tellesburg - which reaises the interesting question of what happened to the intendants in Chisholm, Corisande, Emerald, Tarot, and Zebidiah

Put in a rowboat with a set of oars and pointed toward the mainland??? Heck, throw in a compass if the good intendants aren't offended by the high tech, and let's be generous; include a sack lunch...seems like the least we can do...

Don