HFQ Official Snippet #15 Merry Christmas!

Just catching up having been away over the holidays, with the intense frustration of being able to read the forums and the new snippet (thanks once again for the Christmas present, RFC) but not being able to post, because I was not on my regular computer!

now getting very eager for the next snippet - which must surely be due any time now (he says, hopefully!)

BobG wrote:
I have thought for a while that getting a group of kids who were orphaned (maybe even young enough for implants) and training them in isolation would be a good idea. For example, a base hidden on Silverlode Island. Of course, that would require enough knowledgeable trainers, etc, etc. A non-trivial resource problem.

-- Bob G

Wow, Bob! You've been drinking way too much McGuiness!

Grabbing a bunch of kids way too young to give informed consent and raising them in isolation from all normal society in order to turn them into super-soldiers sounds like 100% child abuse. Nor is it even going to work. To produce 200 adults who will make good marines would mean starting with many times that number of small children and require a huge staff of caretakers, priests, medics, teachers, military trainers etc, etc.

Apart from which there is no way on God's green Safehold Merlin, Cayleb or especially Maikel are ever going to sanction such an abusive plan that tramps all over the kids' human rights.

Randomiser wrote:

BobG wrote:
I have thought for a while that getting a group of kids who were orphaned (maybe even young enough for implants) and training them in isolation would be a good idea. For example, a base hidden on Silverlode Island. Of course, that would require enough knowledgeable trainers, etc, etc. A non-trivial resource problem.

-- Bob G

Wow, Bob! You've been drinking way too much McGuiness!

Grabbing a bunch of kids way too young to give informed consent and raising them in isolation from all normal society in order to turn them into super-soldiers sounds like 100% child abuse. Nor is it even going to work. To produce 200 adults who will make good marines would mean starting with many times that number of small children and require a huge staff of caretakers, priests, medics, teachers, military trainers etc, etc.

Apart from which there is no way on God's green Safehold Merlin, Cayleb or especially Maikel are ever going to sanction such an abusive plan that tramps all over the kids' human rights.

The little monsters have human rights??? Just kidding...

Don

Randomiser wrote:

BobG wrote:
I have thought for a while that getting a group of kids who were orphaned (maybe even young enough for implants) and training them in isolation would be a good idea. For example, a base hidden on Silverlode Island. Of course, that would require enough knowledgeable trainers, etc, etc. A non-trivial resource problem.

-- Bob G

Wow, Bob! You've been drinking way too much McGuiness!

Grabbing a bunch of kids way too young to give informed consent and raising them in isolation from all normal society in order to turn them into super-soldiers sounds like 100% child abuse. Nor is it even going to work. To produce 200 adults who will make good marines would mean starting with many times that number of small children and require a huge staff of caretakers, priests, medics, teachers, military trainers etc, etc.

Apart from which there is no way on God's green Safehold Merlin, Cayleb or especially Maikel are ever going to sanction such an abusive plan that tramps all over the kids' human rights.

My impression was that after they were born was too late to install NEAT, or at least any great number of days thereafter.

BobG wrote:dwileye13 wrote:

The advent of a shuttle/bus to ferry people around may start a bit of traffic into Nimue's cave. Recruiting and training an assault force for the Assault Shuttle would be a good idea!

McGuiness replied:

Considering how nervous Merlin is to fly his skimmer at high speeds, and that as far as he knows, the archangels didn't fly around in assault shuttles, that bit of hardware is likely to remain in Nimue's Cave until the Rakurai is taken out and the power sources under the temple are identified and neutralized if necessary.

After that Cayleb can have all the fun with the assault shuttle that he wants. It comes with 2 million rounds of ammunition and can hold 200 troops after all!

The problem is having 200 troops who are effectively in the inner circle as far as knowledge is concerned. I think that most of even Charisian troops would have problems with learning to use high-tech assault rifles and be willing to ride in an assault shuttle.

I have thought for a while that getting a group of kids who were orphaned (maybe even young enough for implants) and training them in isolation would be a good idea. For example, a base hidden on Silverlode Island. Of course, that would require enough knowledgeable trainers, etc, etc. A non-trivial resource problem.

-- Bob G

I believe the knowledge of the Brotherhood of St.Zherneau and the knowledge of Merlin and Nimue's cave can be seperate things (as shown by Nynian and Calandaria present situation). So there are inner circle and inner circles.

However I would think the Cave should have been the biggest secret. Training an assault force could be important. The Rakurai is a kinetic strike weapon with space defences on the approaches. The only textev I have read of attacks on the planet (IIRC) were kinetic strikes. Can someone point me to something otherwise?

It hasn't been established that the Rakurai can strike a moving target in the atmosphere. That said, once you landed in the Temple Square would the Rakurai drop a rock on the Temple?

There is no record of the OBS hitting a moving target which is an improbable idea with a kenetic bombardment system.
Also no one knows at this point if the OBS is run on automatics or if it needs commands from the outside. In fact though Owl proved that the defensive side is working, no one knows if the OBS itself is still functional.

Don

dwileye13 wrote:I believe the knowledge of the Brotherhood of St.Zherneau and the knowledge of Merlin and Nimue's cave can be separate things (as shown by Nynian and Sandaria present situation). So there are inner circle and inner circles.

However I would think the Cave should have been the biggest secret. Training an assault force could be important. The Rakurai is a kinetic strike weapon with space defenses on the approaches. The only textev I have read of attacks on the planet (IIRC) were kinetic strikes. Can someone point me to something otherwise?

It hasn't been established that the Rakurai can strike a moving target in the atmosphere. That said, once you landed in the Temple Square would the Rakurai drop a rock on the Temple?

We've had quite a lot of fun suggesting strategies like starting up an electrical generator in the Plaza of Martyrs right by the Temple. However, I'd bet that the one place on Safehold the Rakurai is programmed to never bombard is the Temple. The building would probably survive - it's composed of a shell of battle steel after all, which even the Rakurai would have a hard time denting. Any unfortunate humans who happened to be inside at the time would most likely end up as pools of jelly or be atomized by the shock wave. Since those poor humans would include the leadership of the CoGA, there's no way the Rakurai is allowed to bombard targets anywhere near the temple.

Both the SSK and St. Zherneau’s need to be protected, so knowledge of them does not need to be shared with everyone who is given the Big Reveal. Should someone go bad, they wouldn't be able to rat out the monks and nuns. Babbling about a cave buried under the Mountains of Light which no human can ever reach without flying is more likely to get the traitor locked up in a mental ward than believed by the Inquisition! OWL can deactivate the contact lenses and communicators of any turncoats, which leaves some clever lenses that don't violate the Proscriptions and a strange piece of junk you're supposed to stick in your ear. (Hopefully OWL can turn off its ability to slither inside the ear canal.) Even if the Inquisition accepts the story and determines there's a demon loose on Safehold spreading the forbidden knowledge of Shan-Wei, where is the archangel who is always supposed to appear to oppose it? Oops!

Naming members of the inner circle won't do much good either, since all of them but Cayleb and Merlin are currently safe in the EoC. Adding a couple of dozen names to the list of those accused of consorting with demons (who are already targeted for assassination) won't change things much, since the members of the inner circle are well-guarded or in the military, and very few people would believe the charges anyway. After all, Cayleb has been charged with having a demon familiar for years now, and he's still alive despite his habit of hanging out on exposed balconies!

Clearly the missile defense lasers that fried the SNARC OWL sent to probe the Rakurai in OAR can fry something flying through the atmosphere, which is why Merlin prefers to fly relatively slowly rather than race across the planet at Mach 6. He postulated that recon skimmers are programmed out of the Rakurai's targeting algorithm, otherwise the archangels would have gotten shot out of the sky every time they tried to fly somewhere, which wouldn't have made them look particularly divine!

There is no guarantee that an assault shuttle is on the Rakurai's "do not shoot" list though, so I doubt it will be used before the Rakurai is shut down. There's certainly a possibility that the Rakurai is programmed not to shoot at any flying transport that is clearly Terran Federation tech, as long as it isn't trying to attack or probe the Rakurai, but Merlin isn't going to bet on that.

n7axw wrote:There is no record of the OBS hitting a moving target which is an improbable idea with a kinetic bombardment system.
Also no one knows at this point if the OBS is run on automatics or if it needs commands from the outside. In fact though Owl proved that the defensive side is working, no one knows if the OBS itself is still functional.

Don

There's two possible responses from the OBS that would prove it's working on automatics in offensive mode.

First, it could shoot down a skimmer/assault shuttle/airplane, etc. That would only require the use of its lasers, so the damage would be limited to the machine in flight. That's what Merlin worries about when he flies the skimmer at very high speeds.

Second, it could bombard any form of technology that violates the Proscriptions, such as an electric generator. Hopefully it's programmed to use its lasers whenever possible to minimize collateral damage, but knowing the wackos who created it, they weren't likely to err on the side of caution, so forbidden tech that isn't flying would probably be obliterated via bombardment for maximum effect.

If the good guys didn't have to worry about waking up whatever is under the temple and didn't care about innocent civilians, firing up electrical generators in the middle of the CoGA armies would bring a quick but extremely violent end to the war...

McGuiness wrote:

n7axw wrote:There is no record of the OBS hitting a moving target which is an improbable idea with a kinetic bombardment system.
Also no one knows at this point if the OBS is run on automatics or if it needs commands from the outside. In fact though Owl proved that the defensive side is working, no one knows if the OBS itself is still functional.

Don

There's two possible responses from the OBS that would prove it's working on automatics in offensive mode.

First, it could shoot down a skimmer/assault shuttle/airplane, etc. That would only require the use of its lasers, so the damage would be limited to the machine in flight. That's what Merlin worries about when he flies the skimmer at very high speeds.

Second, it could bombard any form of technology that violates the Proscriptions, such as an electric generator. Hopefully it's programmed to use its lasers whenever possible to minimize collateral damage, but knowing the wackos who created it, they weren't likely to err on the side of caution, so forbidden tech that isn't flying would probably be obliterated via bombardment for maximum effect.

If the good guys didn't have to worry about waking up whatever is under the temple and didn't care about innocent civilians, firing up electrical generators in the middle of the CoGA armies would bring a quick but extremely violent end to the war...

There is no evidence that the defense systems of the Rakurai operate in atmosphere. The SNARCs that were destroyed were attempting to approach the system, but they were not necessarily (not even probably) in atmosphere when they were. And Laser's will tend to dissipate in atmosphere over kilometer and greater distances due to air scattering, so it is not clear that you could use a laser weapon on a flyer in atmosphere, and if you are dealing with a constant moving target, hitting it with a rock from space is not all that difficult feat of calculation. We have no textev that this has ever been done however.

fallsfromtrees wrote:There is no evidence that the defense systems of the Rakurai operate in atmosphere. The SNARCs that were destroyed were attempting to approach the system, but they were not necessarily (not even probably) in atmosphere when they were. And Laser's will tend to dissipate in atmosphere over kilometer and greater distances due to air scattering, so it is not clear that you could use a laser weapon on a flyer in atmosphere, and if you are dealing with a constant moving target, hitting it with a rock from space is not all that difficult feat of calculation. We have no textev that this has ever been done however.

Since Merlin is concerned that the skimmer may be shot down by the OBS, there's clearly some sort of Terran Federation weapon built into it that can take down an aircraft flying at supersonic speeds. Note that Merlin has never been concerned that the OBS might destroy the entire countryside over which he happens to be flying.

So if the OBS doesn't have offensive lasers sufficiently powerful to penetrate the atmosphere, it obviously has something less drastic than making a crater the size of a city in order to take down a recon skimmer.