So you want to fly? What, When, Where, Why, How

Tanstaafl wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
I totally support your hobby horse, TANSTAAFL. My own is the importation of Harchong and Desnari serfs and slaves to Siddermark and the EoC. Whether that's from helping escaped slaves or outright buying them and setting them free within the Empire or Siddermark.

Peter,

I sympathize with your feelings about this. But these people are the least educated and most devote on Safehold. From a policy standpoint a don’t know whether this is a good idea.

Fot those that want to migrate, they are welcome. For the rest of them help in the form of new laws and educators has my preference. And of course lots of Charis trained priests.

Zakharra wrote: I still think it's in the plan to take generations. Even when the Truth is exposed, most people aren't going to believe it. That their entire religion is a lie is NOT going to go over well even in Charis. Most will flat out refuse to believe that. You think things are chaotic now? Try revealing that everything an entire world believes in is a lie made by megalomaniacs and you won't believe the sheer destruction that erupts. Most if not all of the people currently alive and being born in the next 10 years, are likely going to have to be dead and buried before Safehold's society will have changed enough to accept said Truth and be able to understand the science behind the Federation level of technology. That's why I think IC engines will not be skipped over. That's a massive infrastructure that can and will benefit hundreds of millions in ways they can understand. Otherwise you're literally trying to yank an entire world from a pre-steam technological level (which pretty much all of Safehold is at, even in Charis) into Federation level technology in 20-30 years? Not possible without -massive- societal and cultural upheaval that makes everything written about to date seem like a sandbox scuffle.


Merlin wants, he NEEDS the planet to be able to adapt and innovate on its own. He cannot just hand them the technology and expect everything to do swimmingly. In order for the majority of the planet to understand it, they HAVE to take the intervening steps. It's not like there is a rush. Merlin has the time to do it, so why is everyone trying to rush it so fast?

SWM wrote:

Zakharra wrote: I still think it's in the plan to take generations. Even when the Truth is exposed, most people aren't going to believe it. That their entire religion is a lie is NOT going to go over well even in Charis. Most will flat out refuse to believe that. You think things are chaotic now? Try revealing that everything an entire world believes in is a lie made by megalomaniacs and you won't believe the sheer destruction that erupts. Most if not all of the people currently alive and being born in the next 10 years, are likely going to have to be dead and buried before Safehold's society will have changed enough to accept said Truth and be able to understand the science behind the Federation level of technology. That's why I think IC engines will not be skipped over. That's a massive infrastructure that can and will benefit hundreds of millions in ways they can understand. Otherwise you're literally trying to yank an entire world from a pre-steam technological level (which pretty much all of Safehold is at, even in Charis) into Federation level technology in 20-30 years? Not possible without -massive- societal and cultural upheaval that makes everything written about to date seem like a sandbox scuffle.


Merlin wants, he NEEDS the planet to be able to adapt and innovate on its own. He cannot just hand them the technology and expect everything to do swimmingly. In order for the majority of the planet to understand it, they HAVE to take the intervening steps. It's not like there is a rush. Merlin has the time to do it, so why is everyone trying to rush it so fast?

Well, we clearly have a fundamental difference of opinion. I believe that life-extension technology will be introduced soon enough that some of the people alive on Safehold at this time will still be alive when the Safehold fleet gets ready to face the Gbaba again.

We'll just have to see in a few books.

Keith_w wrote:

SWM wrote:Well, we clearly have a fundamental difference of opinion. I believe that life-extension technology will be introduced soon enough that some of the people alive on Safehold at this time will still be alive when the Safehold fleet gets ready to face the Gbaba again.

We'll just have to see in a few books.

It has already been stated, in OAR I think, that Cayleb will not live long enough to travel in a Safehome built spacecraft, so I doubt that anyone else born in this phase of the return to space will either. Indeed, do they even know which is the correct direction to Earth?

PeterZ wrote:I believe RFC's point was that refinement of the allowed tech prepared Safehold for a variety of innovations. Arabic numerals was probably the missing link to quite a few delayed innovations. Except for the Arabic numerals, most of the underlying tech has been there for quite a while. The impending innovative explosion held in check because as Irys said the adjective "Innovative" is a pejorative. Charis has turned that adjective almost totally positive. The rest of Safehold hasn't even tried.

So I don't see that groundwork in itself leading to greater innovation without a complete repudiation of the Proscriptions.

n7axw wrote:I really don't dissagree with what you are saying, Peter. It is true that even without the inquisition to enforce them, for many it will take generations for the moral force of the proscriptions to die.

Just a countervailing thought, however... RFC has made the comment that Safehold, not just Charis, is an explosion of innovation waiting to happen. I don't recall where he said that--it might have been the pearls. Those may not have been his exact words, but they do reflect his thought.

So maybe it will happen faster than either of us believe.

Don

BarryKirk wrote:Safehold has to have Helium.

If you have an atmosphere you have a magnetic field to protect it from being stripped off by the solar wind.

If you have a magnetic field you have a molten core.

If you have a molten core then you have radioactive decay of Uranium and Thorium to generate the heat to keep the core molten.

The radioactive decay products from Uranium and Thorium include alpha particles which is Helium.

Safehold has an atmosphere therefore it has Helium.

SWM wrote:

BarryKirk wrote:Safehold has to have Helium.

If you have an atmosphere you have a magnetic field to protect it from being stripped off by the solar wind.

If you have a magnetic field you have a molten core.

If you have a molten core then you have radioactive decay of Uranium and Thorium to generate the heat to keep the core molten.

The radioactive decay products from Uranium and Thorium include alpha particles which is Helium.

Safehold has an atmosphere therefore it has Helium.

Everyone has already assumed that helium exists on the planet, for exactly those reasons. The discussion on helium has been on the feasibility of current Safehold technology to extract and store it.

BarryKirk wrote:

BarryKirk wrote:Safehold has to have Helium.

If you have an atmosphere you have a magnetic field to protect it from being stripped off by the solar wind.

If you have a magnetic field you have a molten core.

If you have a molten core then you have radioactive decay of Uranium and Thorium to generate the heat to keep the core molten.

The radioactive decay products from Uranium and Thorium include alpha particles which is Helium.

Safehold has an atmosphere therefore it has Helium.

SWM wrote:Everyone has already assumed that helium exists on the planet, for exactly those reasons. The discussion on helium has been on the feasibility of current Safehold technology to extract and store it.

I discussed this with my wife, and she said to go ask the balloon man on the corner how easy it is to get the helium.