Anybody know anything about Solar or Geothermal energy?

Graydon wrote:

Zakharra wrote:It seems like a fair number of people here hate the IC engine with a passion for some reason. So I'd like to ask those that don't like it, WHY don't you like the IC engine? Despite the problems an IC engine has, it is extremely convenient for a lot of people. It frees up people from needing to live within walking distance of their work or a railroad. It seems like thew benefits outweigh the costs to a large degree.

Depends on how you count those costs. (Very well known bit of systems theory; things that are positive to individual participants in the system can be very bad for the system as a whole.)

IC engines are major sources of really problematic pollutants. The short-term stuff kills a lot of people every year; the long-term stuff might manage to kill us all by breaking agriculture.

It's been pretty obvious since 1970 or so we should be doing something different; it hasn't happened, in part because half of everything is invested in an oil stock somewhere. And now it's getting to it's going to be extremely expensive, maybe cultural discontinuity expensive.

Didn't have to be. A certain amount of annoyance results.

Agriculture can be part of the solution. Using management intensive grazing not only allows twice the livestock density with an improvement in pasture quality, as a side effect it puts a lot of carbon into the soil from roots dying off during the intensive phase. Each acre cleanses CO2 out of the air, not only above it, but much more. In cities, some are using vertical and roof gardening to catch and reduce pollution.

For the long run: if railroads were set up as a rectangular network at closer distances, we would not need the intermediate transportation methods. We would need something less expensive than steel rails, tho. Also, if the urban was put next to the rails to make strip cities with the internal of the squares reserved for agriculture, nuclear weapons and such would have less tempting targets.

Make the center of a strip long distance transportation & such, heavy industry next door on both sides, a strip of park or orchard next, light industry and commercial, another strip of park or orchard, residential, orchard, then fields, then pastures. Any large explosion could only take out a small portion of the network if the total strip width were kept small, say less than a quarter of a mile.

This would need modification for mountainous or very hilly areas.

DDHvi wrote:

Agriculture can be part of the solution. Using management intensive grazing not only allows twice the livestock density with an improvement in pasture quality, as a side effect it puts a lot of carbon into the soil from roots dying off during the intensive phase. Each acre cleanses CO2 out of the air, not only above it, but much more. In cities, some are using vertical and roof gardening to catch and reduce pollution.

For the long run: if railroads were set up as a rectangular network at closer distances, we would not need the intermediate transportation methods. We would need something less expensive than steel rails, tho. Also, if the urban was put next to the rails to make strip cities with the internal of the squares reserved for agriculture, nuclear weapons and such would have less tempting targets.

Make the center of a strip long distance transportation & such, heavy industry next door on both sides, a strip of park or orchard next, light industry and commercial, another strip of park or orchard, residential, orchard, then fields, then pastures. Any large explosion could only take out a small portion of the network if the total strip width were kept small, say less than a quarter of a mile.

This would need modification for mountainous or very hilly areas.

Some heavy industries need a wider buffer zone. An ammonium nitrate plant has a blast radius of around 5 miles (given a typical one will store around 15 to 20Kt of ammonium nitrate for the planting season - Hiroshima Bomb size blast potential if you have a fire). Bopal type insecticide plants and large refineries need similar buffers (a governmental oversight in India).

AirTech wrote:
Some heavy industries need a wider buffer zone. An ammonium nitrate plant has a blast radius of around 5 miles (given a typical one will store around 15 to 20Kt of ammonium nitrate for the planting season - Hiroshima Bomb size blast potential if you have a fire). Bopal type insecticide plants and large refineries need similar buffers (a governmental oversight in India).

True statement, but you also need very few of these facilities, so they wouldn't be that hard to fit into the scheme. The benefits appear to well outweigh the hassles.

AirTech wrote:...

Some heavy industries need a wider buffer zone. An ammonium nitrate plant has a blast radius of around 5 miles (given a typical one will store around 15 to 20Kt of ammonium nitrate for the planting season - Hiroshima Bomb size blast potential if you have a fire). ...

Not in Texas.

jgnfld wrote:

AirTech wrote:...

Some heavy industries need a wider buffer zone. An ammonium nitrate plant has a blast radius of around 5 miles (given a typical one will store around 15 to 20Kt of ammonium nitrate for the planting season - Hiroshima Bomb size blast potential if you have a fire). ...

Not in Texas.

I assume this is the reference to the 1900 explosion in Galveston?

If you search on ("self heating" and building) you find many items. Among them is at least one design that will provide a no furnace building that costs less than a standard one anywhere in the continental US except near Seattle and part of New England where there is too much winter cloudiness. It is possible there but the cost is higher.

The keys are 1) excellent insulation. One design used a layer of forest tuff with water proofing to keep it from getting wet. 2) enough internal heat storage. This can be used to store high or low temperature heat depending on location and season. 3) Controlled air flow. This means air tightness and a heat (and humidity?) conserving ventilator. 4) a method of controlled interaction with the environment, such as a solar design, night ventilation, or another combination. These need to be in proper proportion.

With the exception of the ventilator which would need something like a solar chimney and/or wind catcher, none of this is high technology. The designs need to be right. I can see not being able to provides seasonal heat storage at Zion, and possibly enough cooling near the equator. However, not having such designs as part of the original terra forming instructions seems unlikely.

BTW, a contractor in Anchorage Alaska built a totally solar heated building. The whole basement volume is an insulated pool for seasonal heat storage.

We've partly modified a century+ old house making a large solar room on the south, using hand tools. Internal heat storage and insulation are not now adequate, but a major drop in heating costs exists. Today was sunny so we picked up about four hours heat in the afternoon, spring and fall needs no other heat, in the summer the fans are reversed to move the warm air into the basement pushing cool air into the house. The saving on air conditioning pays for fan running costs, and the sun room is large enough to help extend the garden season. I just started a few cool weather plants (12/27/14) to go into the sunroom in a month or two.

The house is comfortable enough with little heat except when the wind is blowing. However, North Dakota in the winter . . .. Adding extra insulation and finding air leaks is continuing.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

AirTech wrote:
Some heavy industries need a wider buffer zone. An ammonium nitrate plant has a blast radius of around 5 miles (given a typical one will store around 15 to 20Kt of ammonium nitrate for the planting season - Hiroshima Bomb size blast potential if you have a fire). Bopal type insecticide plants and large refineries need similar buffers (a governmental oversight in India).

True statement, but you also need very few of these facilities, so they wouldn't be that hard to fit into the scheme. The benefits appear to well outweigh the hassles.

No scheme I know about is without at least one hassle God doesn't want us to get too lazy

Seriously, something like this (with modifications as needed) seems a possible variation on the "Mutant" by Henry Kuttner scheme of a maximum allowed community size. Given enough transportation corridors redundancy would reduce the effectiveness of many mass destruction weapons, or at least raise the costs to those using them. However, protection against EMP spikes would be needed if electrical or electronics are used.

BTW, some study or other suggested the general best place to live is when you can get a combination of city convenience with easy access to country. Moving from a node model to a network model can provide that.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

jgnfld wrote:"AirTech"

Some heavy industries need a wider buffer zone. An ammonium nitrate plant has a blast radius of around 5 miles (given a typical one will store around 15 to 20Kt of ammonium nitrate for the planting season - Hiroshima Bomb size blast potential if you have a fire). ...

Not in Texas.

I assume this is the reference to the 1900 explosion in Galveston?

And Texas City,Texas (5-8Kt x 2 ships a day apart).
And West, Texas(1 Kt)

Since Charis is an Island -- an the Empire of Charis is a collection of Islands -- what applications of Tidal Power might be found?

Electrical Generation after the proscriptions are lifted, of course, but is there any potential for earlier?

Weird Harold wrote:Since Charis is an Island -- an the Empire of Charis is a collection of Islands -- what applications of Tidal Power might be found?

Electrical Generation after the proscriptions are lifted, of course, but is there any potential for earlier?

Best application untill the proscriptions are lifted is undershot waterwheel. Even after proscriptions are lifted, it is a lot of capital invested for power at best 1/3 of the time.