Artificial islands

What I heard in the quote is that the current industry that is about to become more efficient is drilling for water. The new industry with the interesting possibilities is drilling for oil.

With that interpretation, the extensive oil fields would be the raising of plants to be harvested for oil.

Not sure about this, but it does make sense. If they actually have extensive oil fields full of wells, why would they be messing with the plants at all?

Don

Draken wrote:

McGuiness wrote:I'd expect the first such platforms to be oil wells, but not until the ICN switches to internal combustion engines and the war ends, since offshore oil rigs would be very tempting targets!

They would be but Charis control few internal seas when they can do whatever they want, so that wouldn't be a problem. Bigger issue would be how to convince fishes not to try if pipes are eatable.

Artificial islands are static structures and are only useful as a static defense or to exploit a static resource. While readily exploitable onshore oil reserves remain why spend money on expensive offshore platforms? An offshore platform is very expensive compared to an onshore facility.
For military purposes, landing ships able to land across an unprepared beach would be a better use of resources. Think Okinawa vs Omaha Beach.
If you are on the defensive then static forts to close gaps in estuaries makes sense but in a war of movement they are a waste of money. Even the Allies would have preferred to capture a port rather than build one, and doing it over oceanic distances is hardly worth considering. Better to deliver an overwhelming force where your opponent cannot respond fast enough and capture a port. (Somewhat easier at a Napoleonic tech level than at a WWII one, and the Safehold scenario is the CoGA operating at Napoleons level whilst the Charisians are at a level a century more advanced (with tech tricks a half millennia beyond that)).
Think what would happen to Napoleons army if it ran into the 8th Army.

n7axw wrote:What I heard in the quote is that the current industry that is about to become more efficient is drilling for water. The new industry with the interesting possibilities is drilling for oil.

With that interpretation, the extensive oil fields would be the raising of plants to be harvested for oil.

Not sure about this, but it does make sense. If they actually have extensive oil fields full of wells, why would they be messing with the plants at all?

Don

I think that it is possible that just as Shan-Wei hid SilverLode island's true nature, that she mapped the oil fields of Charis and Emerald, but didn't add them to the maps she provided Langhorne. They however were buried in the information in the cave (where Nahrman found the true nature of SilverLode) and Merlin is aware of the existence of the fields, wherein the general population of the planet is not. This makes sense, as coal was going to be needed in the interim period of no technology for heating, but the petroleum reserves won't really e required until you start to move to a technological society. Given her reservations about Langhorne's true intentions, it makes sense to hide this information until it is required later.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

n7axw wrote:What I heard in the quote is that the current industry that is about to become more efficient is drilling for water. The new industry with the interesting possibilities is drilling for oil.

With that interpretation, the extensive oil fields would be the raising of plants to be harvested for oil.

Not sure about this, but it does make sense. If they actually have extensive oil fields full of wells, why would they be messing with the plants at all?

Don

I think that it is possible that just as Shan-Wei hid SilverLode island's true nature, that she mapped the oil fields of Charis and Emerald, but didn't add them to the maps she provided Langhorne. They however were buried in the information in the cave (where Nahrman found the true nature of SilverLode) and Merlin is aware of the existence of the fields, wherein the general population of the planet is not. This makes sense, as coal was going to be needed in the interim period of no technology for heating, but the petroleum reserves won't really e required until you start to move to a technological society. Given her reservations about Langhorne's true intentions, it makes sense to hide this information until it is required later.

I won't be surprised if she mapped all strategic resources, but didn't upload maps of them to Langhorne database.

n7axw wrote:What I heard in the quote is that the current industry that is about to become more efficient is drilling for water. The new industry with the interesting possibilities is drilling for oil.

With that interpretation, the extensive oil fields would be the raising of plants to be harvested for oil.

Not sure about this, but it does make sense. If they actually have extensive oil fields full of wells, why would they be messing with the plants at all?

Don

fallsfromtrees wrote:I think that it is possible that just as Shan-Wei hid SilverLode island's true nature, that she mapped the oil fields of Charis and Emerald, but didn't add them to the maps she provided Langhorne. They however were buried in the information in the cave (where Nahrman found the true nature of SilverLode) and Merlin is aware of the existence of the fields, wherein the general population of the planet is not. This makes sense, as coal was going to be needed in the interim period of no technology for heating, but the petroleum reserves won't really e required until you start to move to a technological society. Given her reservations about Langhorne's true intentions, it makes sense to hide this information until it is required later.

Draken wrote:I won't be surprised if she mapped all strategic resources, but didn't upload maps of them to Langhorne database.

I'm sure she did. She would have loaded most up to Langhorne's databases, since failure to do so would have warned him that info was being withheld, and some of those resources were going to be required immediately - coal, some gold and silver, iron, copper, a little bit of petroleum (the equivalent of the La Brea tar pits), some of the other strategic metals, but she might well have up loaded things like aluminum oxide deposits, but they were deleted by Langhorne (or his successors) as never going to be needed by the population, as they were never going to develop the technological society required to exploit them. The same might have been true for the major petroleum deposits.

n7axw wrote:What I heard in the quote is that the current industry that is about to become more efficient is drilling for water. The new industry with the interesting possibilities is drilling for oil.

With that interpretation, the extensive oil fields would be the raising of plants to be harvested for oil.

Not sure about this, but it does make sense. If they actually have extensive oil fields full of wells, why would they be messing with the plants at all?

Don

There's several reasons for that. The plant/animal oils (firevine, the oil tree, the kraken and doomwhales) are, importantly to Langhorne and his goons, naturally produced and replaceable. They are also limited in what humans can grow/harvest, and unlike petrochemical oil we use to make gas/diesel and plastics and such, is useable mostly just as fuel for lamps and such. Widespread use of oil in the ground could lead to the eventual development and use of steam and IC engines, the growth of modern technology, which Langhorne was very much against ever allowing to develop on Safehold. So the drilling and use and refining of that oil would have been discouraged. A lot.

McGuiness wrote:

SYED wrote:We know that Charis may potentially rule the seas of Safehold. SO they need ports and depots on various islands. I was just wondering, with their tech level could they potentially build offshore platforms.
There is an issue with sea life, the krackens and narwhales, but here are ways they could deal with it.

I am sure Merlin has the tech or capability to find the best locations. Those in the most stable places available.
And they could build platforms in home imperial, places between the home islands, to boost and suppot inter imperial trade and commerce.

I wonder if Charis could build up, or alter reefs. Make it harder for others to gain entry or use the territory.

I'd expect the first such platforms to be oil wells, but not until the ICN switches to internal combustion engines and the war ends, since offshore oil rigs would be very tempting targets!

The Proscriptions and the OBS need to be dealt with before there are any true IC engines. but there are several people here who would prefer if Charis and Safehold would never ever develop the ICV engine and stay steam until efficient electric/battery cars can be made. (yes this includes no planes)

Zakharra wrote:(yes this includes no planes)

Actually, no it does NOT include "no planes" since there are other ways of powering airplanes than ICEs.

Weird Harold wrote:

Zakharra wrote:(yes this includes no planes)

Actually, no it does NOT include "no planes" since there are other ways of powering airplanes than ICEs.

Not really. I respectfully disagree. Steam engines are too big and heavy and stirlings are -not- a viable option until they are no longer needed (there's no way a stirling could provide the power a fighter plane or even a bomber needs. IC props and jets are more effective and efficient. I looked up stirling airplane engines and it's at the concept stage atm now. It worked on a small model but not in large scale production planes capable of transporting people or cargo). Unless you got some super efficient very long lasting battery, electric engine planes are out too.

At the tech level Charis will be at, unless they just flat out say 'to hell with all of this' and skip over most of the technological steps and have several manufacturing plants made in the Cave and start making Federation level tech after the OBS and Proscriptions are dealt with, IC engines are better for aircraft, even for dirigibles, although you -might- be able to squeeze one light enough into pone of those. Airplanes though? Not a chance.

So they wont be making any deep sea platforms, but they might develop harbours and docks more, as well as their local water ways.

They might alter thier local reefs, to ensure their coastal security. Building up reefs, near ports and landing areas, will allow them to be easier to maintain and secure.