Gas Stations, or....

cthia wrote:And I appreciate the observation from the Sol system of sooo many galaxies. But you guys are always harping on the size of local space in a solar system. The Manticore system is such a huge space. Yet, the all encompassing universe is much much larger.

Now, I don't mean to downplay what we do know, or think we know. But regarding those observations of the many galaxies that we have achieved from the Sol system with our satellites and telescopes, what percentage of the huge expanse of the universe do you think that entails?

Let's divide the universe, whatever its size, into four equal parts. Of the quarter that we're in, how much of our present observation covers it? One percent? Two percent? Five percent? 10? Okay, I'll be very very generous. Verrrrry... Let's say our observation covers half of our quarter of the universe. Do you think that is enough to base our findings on the universe as a whole? That other seventy-five percent?

Given that we're discussing impact of this hydrogen on the Honorverse, which IIRC is all set within roughly 800 ly of Earth (well within the local neighborhood of our own galaxy), the fact that there might be some hyper-dense hydrogen field (that hasn't collapsed into a star or gas giant yet) off in some remote corner of another galaxy seem kind of beside the point.

If there is it can't have any impact on the cost of hydrogen here; and it's pretty unlikely that there's something like that that got missed so (relatively) close to Earth as the limits of the explored Honorverse.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:And I appreciate the observation from the Sol system of sooo many galaxies. But you guys are always harping on the size of local space in a solar system. The Manticore system is such a huge space. Yet, the all encompassing universe is much much larger.

Now, I don't mean to downplay what we do know, or think we know. But regarding those observations of the many galaxies that we have achieved from the Sol system with our satellites and telescopes, what percentage of the huge expanse of the universe do you think that entails?

Let's divide the universe, whatever its size, into four equal parts. Of the quarter that we're in, how much of our present observation covers it? One percent? Two percent? Five percent? 10? Okay, I'll be very very generous. Verrrrry... Let's say our observation covers half of our quarter of the universe. Do you think that is enough to base our findings on the universe as a whole? That other seventy-five percent?

Given that we're discussing impact of this hydrogen on the Honorverse, which IIRC is all set within roughly 800 ly of Earth (well within the local neighborhood of our own galaxy), the fact that there might be some hyper-dense hydrogen field (that hasn't collapsed into a star or gas giant yet) off in some remote corner of another galaxy seem kind of beside the point.

If there is it can't have any impact on the cost of hydrogen here; and it's pretty unlikely that there's something like that that got missed so (relatively) close to Earth as the limits of the explored Honorverse.

Well, I was actually the one who brought up nebulae in the rest of the galaxy. He was just responding to me, so he's not responsible for this bit of side-tracking. I am.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:And I appreciate the observation from the Sol system of sooo many galaxies. But you guys are always harping on the size of local space in a solar system. The Manticore system is such a huge space. Yet, the all encompassing universe is much much larger.

Now, I don't mean to downplay what we do know, or think we know. But regarding those observations of the many galaxies that we have achieved from the Sol system with our satellites and telescopes, what percentage of the huge expanse of the universe do you think that entails?

Let's divide the universe, whatever its size, into four equal parts. Of the quarter that we're in, how much of our present observation covers it? One percent? Two percent? Five percent? 10? Okay, I'll be very very generous. Verrrrry... Let's say our observation covers half of our quarter of the universe. Do you think that is enough to base our findings on the universe as a whole? That other seventy-five percent?

Given that we're discussing impact of this hydrogen on the Honorverse, which IIRC is all set within roughly 800 ly of Earth (well within the local neighborhood of our own galaxy), the fact that there might be some hyper-dense hydrogen field (that hasn't collapsed into a star or gas giant yet) off in some remote corner of another galaxy seem kind of beside the point.

If there is it can't have any impact on the cost of hydrogen here; and it's pretty unlikely that there's something like that that got missed so (relatively) close to Earth as the limits of the explored Honorverse.

SWM wrote:Well, I was actually the one who brought up nebulae in the rest of the galaxy. He was just responding to me, so he's not responsible for this bit of side-tracking. I am.

This will have to be quick. My niece is destroying several chess players, three of them experts. Karaoke full blast. Brandy and eggnog flowing, three bridge games, and a silly game of twister.

I think it could be easily missed. Hidden. Perfectly eclipsed by other phenomena. Besides, you're forgetting the back doors of a galaxy, hidden within this 800 LY playground, called ... undiscovered wormholes.

cthia wrote::?

This will have to be quick. My niece is destroying several chess players, three of them experts. Karaoke full blast. Brandy and eggnog flowing, three bridge games, and a silly game of twister.

I think it could be easily missed. Hidden. Perfectly eclipsed by other phenomena. Besides, you're forgetting the back doors of a galaxy, hidden within this 800 LY playground, called ... undiscovered wormholes.[/quote]
I think I lost the chain of this discussion.

I thought these nebula, were being given asan example of a hydrogen rich resource that could provide for a Kuwait analog that was shipping cheap hydrogen around the Honorverse. I can't imagine the Kuwait analog could be mining from the far side of a "undiscovered" wormhole without anybody noticing. Not at be shipping this hydrogen in vast bulk for other systems to buy...

Hutch wrote:...How many parsecs does your Superdreadnought get before it runs out of hydrogen?

Don't know why this question popped into my mind, but given that most of the on-board power for all Honorverse ships are Gravity-pinched Fusion Reactors and that they use (IIRC) Hydrogen for their primary fuel (after all, if it's good enough for Stellar evolution, it's good enough for us).


It never is that simple. Anyone who has read/dealt with the military knows that in their bones.

Comments and data would be most welcome.

------------------

Same Logistics argument that has gone on since Sail-rigged gave way to coal-fired and oil-fired.
RFC has noted in several places gas-mining operations and H2 Tank Farms; Note Mike Henke's Apollo (IIRC) in Field of Dishonor, had to delay its return to Manticore while it collected elemental H2 in Grayson orbit.

The Tank Farms and Gas Giant mining operations are similar to Guam and Saipan's colonial origins as coaling stations for (respectively) the USN and Imperial German Navy.

Gas Giant mining operations and Gas Nebula mining (yet to be mentioned by RFC) are likely part of the inter-steller infrastructure that we don't see unless it has a point to the story line.

But they MAY be valuable strategic targets if they can be overwhelmed and seized with minimal structural / resource damage.

-- Stewart

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Given that we're discussing impact of this hydrogen on the Honorverse, which IIRC is all set within roughly 800 ly of Earth (well within the local neighborhood of our own galaxy), the fact that there might be some hyper-dense hydrogen field (that hasn't collapsed into a star or gas giant yet) off in some remote corner of another galaxy seem kind of beside the point.

If there is it can't have any impact on the cost of hydrogen here; and it's pretty unlikely that there's something like that that got missed so (relatively) close to Earth as the limits of the explored Honorverse.

SWM wrote:Well, I was actually the one who brought up nebulae in the rest of the galaxy. He was just responding to me, so he's not responsible for this bit of side-tracking. I am.

This will have to be quick. My niece is destroying several chess players, three of them experts. Karaoke full blast. Brandy and eggnog flowing, three bridge games, and a silly game of twister.

I think it could be easily missed. Hidden. Perfectly eclipsed by other phenomena. Besides, you're forgetting the back doors of a galaxy, hidden within this 800 LY playground, called ... undiscovered wormholes.

The explored region of the Honorverse is more like two thousand light-years in radius. A wormhole could possibly reach another thousand light-years further.

I'm not sure how you think that a nebula could possibly be missed if it were within a few thousand light-years of the Earth. Nebula are quite easily detected. Even if a nebula were directly behind another nebula, it would still be detected if it were that close. You can't hide a nebula. They give off distinctive radiation.

Of course, that doesn't really affect the Honorverse. I am pretty sure that if David wants particular stars or nebulae at particular places, he isn't worrying that it doesn't match real-life astronomical maps.

It would appear that in the Honoroverse, you can set up an automated Hydrogen harvesting operation in a star system that will store the Hydrogen in a form usable as fuel for starships in some manner of space-based tank farm. Hydrogen is also used as a fuel in a range of things from barbecue grills to pinnacles. In COG we see the Seccie swaps out the grill tanks with seriously high pressure Hydrogen tanks to make his IED.

They also can make a micro-fusion reactor small and safe enough to power( for a while at least) a millitary missile.

I would settle for a Mr. Fusion- guess I will need at least two- to power my house and my car.
Voila --- trash recycling and a really large amount of clean energy at the same time.

A personal, portable, consumer sized fusion reactor. Perhaps Next Christmas?. Will I have to get a permit from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission? Then I just need to to be able to connect the DDC system for my trains....

Brigade XO wrote:It would appear that in the Honoroverse, you can set up an automated Hydrogen harvesting operation in a star system that will store the Hydrogen in a form usable as fuel for starships in some manner of space-based tank farm. Hydrogen is also used as a fuel in a range of things from barbecue grills to pinnacles. In COG we see the Seccie swaps out the grill tanks with seriously high pressure Hydrogen tanks to make his IED.

They also can make a micro-fusion reactor small and safe enough to power( for a while at least) a millitary missile.

I would settle for a Mr. Fusion- guess I will need at least two- to power my house and my car.
Voila --- trash recycling and a really large amount of clean energy at the same time.

A personal, portable, consumer sized fusion reactor. Perhaps Next Christmas?. Will I have to get a permit from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission? Then I just need to to be able to connect the DDC system for my trains....

And you can even fuel pinnaces and air cars with it.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:It would appear that in the Honoroverse, you can set up an automated Hydrogen harvesting operation in a star system that will store the Hydrogen in a form usable as fuel for starships in some manner of space-based tank farm. Hydrogen is also used as a fuel in a range of things from barbecue grills to pinnacles. In COG we see the Seccie swaps out the grill tanks with seriously high pressure Hydrogen tanks to make his IED.

They also can make a micro-fusion reactor small and safe enough to power( for a while at least) a millitary missile.

I would settle for a Mr. Fusion- guess I will need at least two- to power my house and my car.
Voila --- trash recycling and a really large amount of clean energy at the same time.

A personal, portable, consumer sized fusion reactor. Perhaps Next Christmas?. Will I have to get a permit from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission? Then I just need to to be able to connect the DDC system for my trains....

And you can even fuel pinnaces and air cars with it.

Does the Honorverse have flying DeLorean's in it? And if it does, do they come standard with time machines?

Vince wrote: Does the Honorverse have flying DeLorean's in it? And if it does, do they come standard with time machines?

Sure they do; but it's pretty limited. However at full speed they take you into the future at a rate of 1.0000000000161051:1


(relativistic time dilation for 1,701.45 m/s; or Mach 5 at whatever reference temp/pressure Google uses)