Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by Cheopis   » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:23 am

Cheopis
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1633
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:04 am

In regards to Diesel. I would say that if you can make a reasonably reliable triple-expansion steam engine, you're ready for crude diesel.
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by n7axw   » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:27 am

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Listen guys... l am a preacher, not a mechanic or an engineer.

But I can take apart and reassemble a gasoline engine. I know what is inside there and have a pretty good idea how it all works. The most difficult part of that would be the tolerances on the bearings for both the cam and the crankshaft. The cylinders themselves would be a bit less critical using compression rings. Finally you have to get the valves seated tight enough to hold compression.

One of the things that has been interesting me is how hard Howsmyn has been working to improve his precision machining and how with the guns at least, interchangability of parts. IIRC with compression he is managing about 300 lb for his steam engines. How much higher does he need to get for diesels?

I'm assuming that the diesels would run on mostly the same principles except for no need for plugs to fire the cylinders. But I'm in a bit deep for me on the details.

My own assumption would be that with Howsmyn's current resourses, he could build on what he has learned from the steam engines, add to that knowledge base enough to go on to build a diesel.

As for the oils, I'm not knowlegable enough to comment on that.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by AirTech   » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:11 am

AirTech
Captain of the List

Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:37 am
Location: Deeeep South (Australia) (most of the time...)

n7axw wrote:Listen guys... l am a preacher, not a mechanic or an engineer.

But I can take apart and reassemble a gasoline engine. I know what is inside there and have a pretty good idea how it all works. The most difficult part of that would be the tolerances on the bearings for both the cam and the crankshaft. The cylinders themselves would be a bit less critical using compression rings. Finally you have to get the valves seated tight enough to hold compression.

One of the things that has been interesting me is how hard Howsmyn has been working to improve his precision machining and how with the guns at least, interchangability of parts. IIRC with compression he is managing about 300 lb for his steam engines. How much higher does he need to get for diesels?

I'm assuming that the diesels would run on mostly the same principles except for no need for plugs to fire the cylinders. But I'm in a bit deep for me on the details.

My own assumption would be that with Howsmyn's current resourses, he could build on what he has learned from the steam engines, add to that knowledge base enough to go on to build a diesel.

As for the oils, I'm not knowlegable enough to comment on that.

Don


The requirements for machining a high speed steam engines crank and valves (i.e. faster than 700 rpm) are exactly the same as a low speed diesel. The forces are very similar. The injection pump needs more precise work but if you can build a gun with truly interchangeable parts you are more than half way there. (Some firearms manufacturers today still have difficulties - hence why you have gunsmiths to hand fit what should be identical parts).
As for lubrication - if you have a set of appropriate text books then making the oils shouldn't bee impossible with a relatively low tech level - its just a question of volumes needed.
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:51 pm

fallsfromtrees
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:51 am
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Cheopis wrote:
I bought mine new, for cash, with part of the settlement I received for the aftermath of an argument with a hydraulic cylinder (it won handily.) By far the best investment I ever made. I didn't even blink when I had to replace the engine. It was expensive, but worth it to keep the truck. If I ever have to get another vehicle, which I hope I won't, I might have to look into buying a foreign built Ranger if they seem to be as well-built as the US-built ones were.


I think that in that time frame all of the small pickups were being built in Japan - for Ford, I believe that their partner was Mazda. You might check them out, should you ever have to replace your vehicle.
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by n7axw   » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:55 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

fallsfromtrees wrote:
Cheopis wrote:
I bought mine new, for cash, with part of the settlement I received for the aftermath of an argument with a hydraulic cylinder (it won handily.) By far the best investment I ever made. I didn't even blink when I had to replace the engine. It was expensive, but worth it to keep the truck. If I ever have to get another vehicle, which I hope I won't, I might have to look into buying a foreign built Ranger if they seem to be as well-built as the US-built ones were.


I think that in that time frame all of the small pickups were being built in Japan - for Ford, I believe that their partner was Mazda. You might check them out, should you ever have to replace your vehicle.


The Twin Cities Automotive Plant built Rangers right up to the time when the model was discontinued.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:57 pm

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

n7axw wrote:The Twin Cities Automotive Plant built Rangers right up to the time when the model was discontinued.


Ya-no, they might still be making Rangers if you guys bought new ones more often than every 20 years. :p :roll:
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by emeye   » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:45 am

emeye
Commander

Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:57 am
Location: Wien

Mazda BT50 is more or less the new Ranger. IIRC, both are built in same factories in Thailand and Argentina.

Ranger is available here, but BT50 isn't. Go figure...

Both come with quite interesting Diesels, which thanks to draconian NOx emission regulations in US, is probably not an option there. Pity.

Weird Harold wrote:
n7axw wrote:The Twin Cities Automotive Plant built Rangers right up to the time when the model was discontinued.


Ya-no, they might still be making Rangers if you guys bought new ones more often than every 20 years. :p :roll:
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by Cheopis   » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:41 am

Cheopis
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1633
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:04 am

Weird Harold wrote:
n7axw wrote:The Twin Cities Automotive Plant built Rangers right up to the time when the model was discontinued.


Ya-no, they might still be making Rangers if you guys bought new ones more often than every 20 years. :p :roll:


**grabs the topic again and yanks it in a different direction. Sorry.

There's something to that, I suppose. I guess that just means they should make them even better, so that nobody will seriously consider buying anything else.

Planned obsolescence is a big sore point with me. My mother had a 1960 RCA-Whirlpool Imperial washing machine. It was her grandmother's and was passed to her. It did three or more loads of laundry per day for 43 years, with only a few minor repairs before it died because the tub rusted out. We were actually able to get a new tub, in the original box even, but I couldn't get the old tub out/off, because the tub top retaining nut was time-welded in place, and I didn't have a shop where I could take the thing to try to heat the nut and hope it would crack loose without breaking anything. I certainly wasn't going to use a torch to heat the thing in the house.

Even if the thing was only half as efficient as a modern washer, how much energy was saved over forty years because my mother didn't need to buy eight new washers? All the man-hours and resources saved, all the time spent doing other productive things.

Autos are getting better, overall, I think. But a lot of other stuff isn't.
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:28 am

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

Cheopis wrote:**grabs the topic again and yanks it in a different direction. Sorry.

There's something to that, I suppose. I guess that just means they should make them even better, so that nobody will seriously consider buying anything else.

Planned obsolescence is a big sore point with me. ...


Oh, I'm no fan of planned obsolescence either, but if nobody is buying new rangers there's no profit in building them -- whatever the reason for low sales might be.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?
Post by bjchip   » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:58 pm

bjchip
Midshipman

Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:17 pm

I can imagine creating a laser that is pumped by solar/mechanical means. It would be an interesting challenge, but could have no electronic signature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-pumped_laser
Top

Return to Safehold