Gas Stations, or....

Do we even know what kind of hydrogen Honorverse fusion plants use? Is it proton-proton fusion (regular hydrogen) or deuterium-deuterium or deuterium-tritium or what?

I'd imagine proton-proton, at least for the gravity plants used on starships, but...

Another thing that may complicate matters - Bussard hydrogen collectors exist in the Honorverse (or once did, anyway - there's a mention that they don't work in hyper in "The Universe of Honor Harrington", but that refers to the early hyper ships that used reaction drives rather than impellers)

I thought i remembered mention of those during[u]t [u]least one book.

ALthough, you could still potentially use the wedge as a collector couldn't you, even if its slow? or perhaps have a limited refuel capability, say 5 to 15% of burn rate?.....


Absent MWW though, i would guess its the unspoken assumption of at least one carrier in the supply convoy holding fuel, or yards having refueling capability. Come to think of it, dont we have mention at some point of topping up the tanks/bunkers while at hephaestus, pre OB?

cralkhi wrote:Do we even know what kind of hydrogen Honorverse fusion plants use? Is it proton-proton fusion (regular hydrogen) or deuterium-deuterium or deuterium-tritium or what?

I'd imagine proton-proton, at least for the gravity plants used on starships, but...

Another thing that may complicate matters - Bussard hydrogen collectors exist in the Honorverse (or once did, anyway - there's a mention that they don't work in hyper in "The Universe of Honor Harrington", but that refers to the early hyper ships that used reaction drives rather than impellers)

Brigade XO wrote:You will remember that the hydrogen tank farm and production at Ceberus was automated and Honor didn't have to deal with a PRH force and staff running it. She just took the ships out to it, tanked, and ran her operation back in with the ambush.

Meyers would be a larger operation. It was servicing the FF operations based out of the system and would probably be shipping most of the hydrogen in by in-system tankers or lighters. It would sound, since there was a good sized (numbers not give) number of people which represented a faction in the system politics, it is going to be more than just a fuel mine.

In addition, remember in the dinner party for midshipmen that Honor hosts in AoV, Mike Henke pointed out one of the problem with Honor's strategy at Cerebus was that after the thruster burn, her ships would have had insufficient hydrogen to run to another star if this went badly, or even if they had had to do any extended maneuvering in system for battle.

Hydrogen is the universe's most prolific Olympic runner. Of all the universe's elemental gases, hydrogen rules the roost garnering 75 % of the medals.

Its properties, of being the least dense gas known, and more importantly its non polar characteristics would make it easy for a technologically advanced species to target and collect it from surrounding space, assisted by the polar nature and higher density of most other known elemental gases.

As a result, it is conceivable that every populated system has a hydrogen production facility. Any space capable species anyways. You can't operate a space station without a hydrogen production facility. You just can't.

It is also conceivable, that some systems may be akin to the Saudi, Irani, and Kuwaits of the Honorverse, sitting atop enormous hydrogen reserves via location to natural phenomena currying favor with hydrogen. One episode of Star Trek featured the Enterprise collecting vast amounts of hydrogen from a local nebula, to use as a weapon when discharged in the path of a Borg cube and ignited.

Nebulas are interstellar nurseries consisting of a collection of matter, usually gasses, like hydrogen.

Star Trek ships are capable of collecting their own hydrogen.

****** *

Now. High Test or Premium? Leaded or Unleaded? Full service? Windows washed?

Change the oil and kick the Warshawski tires.

Of course, an author can create his sci-fi world out of any colored lego blocks he chooses.

Having said that, I cannot see any star system surviving without the benefit of a local hydrogen production plant. You simply cannot rely on tankered in hydrogen. Wars, blockades, accidents, pirates, Murphy, distance would kill a star system. Personally, I can only see tankered hydrogen in emergency situations, such as stranded ships, or part of a fleet train, etc.

cthia wrote:Of course, an author can create his sci-fi world out of any colored lego blocks he chooses.

Having said that, I cannot see any star system surviving without the benefit of a local hydrogen production plant. You simply cannot rely on tankered in hydrogen. Wars, blockades, accidents, pirates, Murphy, distance would kill a star system. Personally, I can only see tankered hydrogen in emergency situations, such as stranded ships, or part of a fleet train, etc.

Current theories of planetary system formation almost require the development of gas giant planets during the formation of the system. It is entirely possible that survey teams would consider a system without a gas giant to be uncolonizable, and move onto the next.

In fact, thinking about it, such a system would make a good hiding place for Darius, since everyone would know that you couldn't have colony there, and there are enough systems with only gas giants that you could use tankers to keep it supplied.

cthia wrote:Of course, an author can create his sci-fi world out of any colored lego blocks he chooses.

Having said that, I cannot see any star system surviving without the benefit of a local hydrogen production plant. You simply cannot rely on tankered in hydrogen. Wars, blockades, accidents, pirates, Murphy, distance would kill a star system. Personally, I can only see tankered hydrogen in emergency situations, such as stranded ships, or part of a fleet train, etc.

I wonder if some of the whole system infrastructure wipeouts that Eighth Fleet, et. al were executing were knocking the fuel extraction facilities offline, or similarly, if some of the systems that we read going extremely hardscrabble for generations would be because of the loss of some critical bit of technology that keeps the hydrogen mining operations workable.

cthia wrote: *Snip*

As a result, it is conceivable that every populated system has a hydrogen production facility. Any space capable species anyways. You can't operate a space station without a hydrogen production facility. You just can't.

I'd modify it to say that every 'space-faring' populated system, but I agree totally with the thought.

It is also conceivable, that some systems may be akin to the Saudi, Irani, and Kuwaits of the Honorverse, sitting atop enormous hydrogen reserves via location to natural phenomena currying favor with hydrogen. *snip*

Now that is an intriguing thought...but since most systems will (as my limited grasp of astro-physics understands) have gas giant planets, and Jupiter-like planets have atmospheres 90% hydrogen, it is getting out there and figuring out how to mine it that is the trick, not lack of material.

Still, there might be Core planets that specialize in 'drilling' for hydrogen and sell that expertise to other, less developed planets in the Verge..with modest charges, of course...

Hutch wrote:

cthia wrote: *Snip*
As a result, it is conceivable that every populated system has a hydrogen production facility. Any space capable species anyways. You can't operate a space station without a hydrogen production facility. You just can't.

I'd modify it to say that every 'space-faring' populated system, but I agree totally with the thought.

It is also conceivable, that some systems may be akin to the Saudi, Irani, and Kuwaits of the Honorverse, sitting atop enormous hydrogen reserves via location to natural phenomena currying favor with hydrogen. *snip*

Now that is an intriguing thought...but since most systems will (as my limited grasp of astro-physics understands) have gas giant planets, and Jupiter-like planets have atmospheres 90% hydrogen, it is getting out there and figuring out how to mine it that is the trick, not lack of material.

Still, there might be Core planets that specialize in 'drilling' for hydrogen and sell that expertise to other, less developed planets in the Verge..with modest charges, of course...

Thanks for the modification. Spot on. I wrestled with editing it myself after a proof read but, house full of company thru New Years said otherwise.

Yes, but all gas giants aren't composed of the right stuff (currying favor with hydrogen) like Saturn, as in water, ammonia and methane in the case of Uranus and Neptune, which are instead ice giants.

cthia wrote:

Hutch wrote:Still, there might be Core planets that specialize in 'drilling' for hydrogen and sell that expertise to other, less developed planets in the Verge..with modest charges, of course...

Thanks for the modification. Spot on. I wrestled with editing it myself after a proof read but, house full of company thru New Years said otherwise.

Yes, but all gas giants aren't composed of the right stuff (currying favor with hydrogen) like Saturn, as in water, ammonia and methane in the case of Uranus and Neptune, which are instead ice giants.

What's wrong with water, ammonia, and methane? All of those contain hydrogen. Hydrogen can be extracted from those planets quite easily.