Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests

WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!

Thirsk is shot do you believe it is:

1) part of an elaborate escape.
12
14%
2) death of another beloved character to make the series not war porn.
16
19%
3) something even sneaker by RFC.
58
67%
 
Total votes : 86

Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by n7axw   » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:59 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Hi fallsfromtrees,

The ancients had a "religious pretext" for everything. In fact the whole notion of the possibility of "the secular" would have sounded to them completely unnatural.

You find it in the Bible itself. In spite of the gospel message itself being utterly toxic to slavery, you find "orders of society" in the New Testament that apparently give divine sanction to slavery, the inferior status of women and other things that most of us would disapprove of. It's taken the church a long time to work all that through and it must be admitted that the process is far from complete even now.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:44 am

fallsfromtrees
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:51 am
Location: Mesa, Arizona

TN4994 wrote:
fallsfromtrees wrote:
I don't think that either the Greeks or the Romans used a religious justification for slavery. It was more the logic of empire - we conquered you, and you will therefore serve us.


The gods had many inferior beings serve their needs.
Zeus/Jupiter had his auras
Poseidon/Neptune had his Satyrs
Hephaestus/Vulcan had Cyclops man the forges.
Hades/Pluto had Thanatos.
I forget who did Aphrodite/Venus's hair.

Evan the Titan Atlas was forced into slavery.

But it wasn't justified by religion. That was a reflection of the times. As has been said, "God is created in the image of man".
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by TN4994   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:17 pm

TN4994
Captain of the List

Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:41 pm
Location: Apache County Arizona

fallsfromtrees wrote:

But it wasn't justified by religion. That was a reflection of the times. As has been said, "God is created in the image of man".

Do you remember the song One Tin Soldier?
Excerpt:

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by Charybdis   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:31 pm

Charybdis
Captain of the List

Posts: 714
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:53 am
Location: Gulf Coast Florida USA

n7axw wrote:Hi fallsfromtrees,

The ancients had a "religious pretext" for everything. In fact the whole notion of the possibility of "the secular" would have sounded to them completely unnatural.

You find it in the Bible itself. In spite of the gospel message itself being utterly toxic to slavery, you find "orders of society" in the New Testament that apparently give divine sanction to slavery, the inferior status of women and other things that most of us would disapprove of. It's taken the church a long time to work all that through and it must be admitted that the process is far from complete even now.

Don

I believe that you can find similar pretexts from the Nazis, The Bolsheviks, the Cultural Revolutionists, Pol Pot's soldiers and none of them were practicing religionists except for their religion of revolution! Believers are believers regardless of religion or revolution, all it takes is the feelings involved in submergence within a 'dedication' movement that replaces normal morality with the revolutionary 'principals!' Madame Defarge anyone?
-----

What say you, my peers?
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by TN4994   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:03 pm

TN4994
Captain of the List

Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:41 pm
Location: Apache County Arizona

Charybdis wrote:
n7axw wrote:Hi fallsfromtrees,

The ancients had a "religious pretext" for everything. In fact the whole notion of the possibility of "the secular" would have sounded to them completely unnatural.

You find it in the Bible itself. In spite of the gospel message itself being utterly toxic to slavery, you find "orders of society" in the New Testament that apparently give divine sanction to slavery, the inferior status of women and other things that most of us would disapprove of. It's taken the church a long time to work all that through and it must be admitted that the process is far from complete even now.

Don

I believe that you can find similar pretexts from the Nazis, The Bolsheviks, the Cultural Revolutionists, Pol Pot's soldiers and none of them were practicing religionists except for their religion of revolution! Believers are believers regardless of religion or revolution, all it takes is the feelings involved in submergence within a 'dedication' movement that replaces normal morality with the revolutionary 'principals!' Madame Defarge anyone?

But we must remember that the societies of Safehold are founded on a religion. So is slavery approved of in the Writ, or did it develop over time on its own? Is it a case of "Well it doesn't say we can't" or "the followers of Shan-wei and their descendants will forever be cursed to serve all others"?
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:41 pm

fallsfromtrees
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:51 am
Location: Mesa, Arizona

n7axw wrote:Hi fallsfromtrees,

The ancients had a "religious pretext" for everything. In fact the whole notion of the possibility of "the secular" would have sounded to them completely unnatural.

You find it in the Bible itself. In spite of the gospel message itself being utterly toxic to slavery, you find "orders of society" in the New Testament that apparently give divine sanction to slavery, the inferior status of women and other things that most of us would disapprove of. It's taken the church a long time to work all that through and it must be admitted that the process is far from complete even now.

Don

The apparent support for slavery in the New Testament primarily comes for the writings of Paul, who was actually had a fairly difficult tightrope to walk. He had to reconcile his understanding of the message of Christ with the existing Roman customs and laws. Advocating the abolition of slavery would have led to the short chop in very short order, as one of the major fears of the patrician class was a slave rebellion. Spartacus was only about one hundred years in the past, and was still remembered. Also the role of women in the society was very much as brood mares, and not much else, and Paul was clearly a misogynist, so it is not surprising that he denigrated the role of women in the church, despite that fact that women were significant supporters of the early church - again reflecting the mores of the times. The early Christian era was not the time for women's lib - the thought would have led to his immediate execution as a dangerous rebel.
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by TN4994   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:19 pm

TN4994
Captain of the List

Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:41 pm
Location: Apache County Arizona

fallsfromtrees wrote:
The apparent support for slavery in the New Testament primarily comes for the writings of Paul, who was actually had a fairly difficult tightrope to walk. He had to reconcile his understanding of the message of Christ with the existing Roman customs and laws. Advocating the abolition of slavery would have led to the short chop in very short order, as one of the major fears of the patrician class was a slave rebellion. Spartacus was only about one hundred years in the past, and was still remembered. Also the role of women in the society was very much as brood mares, and not much else, and Paul was clearly a misogynist, so it is not surprising that he denigrated the role of women in the church, despite that fact that women were significant supporters of the early church - again reflecting the mores of the times. The early Christian era was not the time for women's lib - the thought would have led to his immediate execution as a dangerous rebel.

Genesis on Ham (dark skin / brown)And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without... ...Noah said: Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants, shall he be unto his brethren.... ...God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Note: God did not create slavery.
Noah did.
Somehow this became God's will.
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by n7axw   » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:31 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

fallsfromtrees wrote:

The apparent support for slavery in the New Testament primarily comes for the writings of Paul, who was actually had a fairly difficult tightrope to walk. He had to reconcile his understanding of the message of Christ with the existing Roman customs and laws. Advocating the abolition of slavery would have led to the short chop in very short order, as one of the major fears of the patrician class was a slave rebellion. Spartacus was only about one hundred years in the past, and was still remembered. Also the role of women in the society was very much as brood mares, and not much else, and Paul was clearly a misogynist, so it is not surprising that he denigrated the role of women in the church, despite that fact that women were significant supporters of the early church - again reflecting the mores of the times. The early Christian era was not the time for women's lib - the thought would have led to his immediate execution as a dangerous rebel.



We are getting into deep waters here. The passage I'm referring to is in Ephesians which probably was not written by Paul himself, but by one of his disciples after Paul was gone since much of the theology was Pauline. As for Paul's attitude toward women, he was the product of his times and it is not quite fair to judge him by the values of our own. And it ignores the reality that Paul saw himself with a very tightly focused mission of spreading the Christian faith, not introducing social change.

As for the rest of the Bible, Old Testament prophets and kings had slaves, apparently with divine approval. In the ancient world, slavery was a given. It was for a later time to seriously question it.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by AClone   » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:01 pm

AClone
Captain of the List

Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:38 pm
Location: Midwestern United States

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Thirsk were testing a steel thistle silk bulletproof vest. That's justhow MWW rolls.
Top
Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:29 pm

fallsfromtrees
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:51 am
Location: Mesa, Arizona

AClone wrote:I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Thirsk were testing a steel thistle silk bulletproof vest. That's justhow MWW rolls.

I like it - that's exactly how the MWW teases us.
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
Top

Return to Safehold