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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by n7axw » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:59 pm | |
n7axw
Posts: 5997
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Hi fallsfromtrees,
The ancients had a "religious pretext" for everything. In fact the whole notion of the possibility of "the secular" would have sounded to them completely unnatural. You find it in the Bible itself. In spite of the gospel message itself being utterly toxic to slavery, you find "orders of society" in the New Testament that apparently give divine sanction to slavery, the inferior status of women and other things that most of us would disapprove of. It's taken the church a long time to work all that through and it must be admitted that the process is far from complete even now. Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by fallsfromtrees » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:44 am | |
fallsfromtrees
Posts: 1960
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But it wasn't justified by religion. That was a reflection of the times. As has been said, "God is created in the image of man". ========================
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln |
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by TN4994 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:17 pm | |
TN4994
Posts: 404
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Do you remember the song One Tin Soldier? Excerpt: Go ahead and hate your neighbor, Go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of Heaven, You can justify it in the end. There won't be any trumpets blowing Come the judgement day, On the bloody morning after.... One tin soldier rides away. |
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by Charybdis » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:31 pm | |
Charybdis
Posts: 714
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I believe that you can find similar pretexts from the Nazis, The Bolsheviks, the Cultural Revolutionists, Pol Pot's soldiers and none of them were practicing religionists except for their religion of revolution! Believers are believers regardless of religion or revolution, all it takes is the feelings involved in submergence within a 'dedication' movement that replaces normal morality with the revolutionary 'principals!' Madame Defarge anyone? -----
What say you, my peers? |
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by TN4994 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:03 pm | |
TN4994
Posts: 404
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But we must remember that the societies of Safehold are founded on a religion. So is slavery approved of in the Writ, or did it develop over time on its own? Is it a case of "Well it doesn't say we can't" or "the followers of Shan-wei and their descendants will forever be cursed to serve all others"? |
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by fallsfromtrees » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:41 pm | |
fallsfromtrees
Posts: 1960
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The apparent support for slavery in the New Testament primarily comes for the writings of Paul, who was actually had a fairly difficult tightrope to walk. He had to reconcile his understanding of the message of Christ with the existing Roman customs and laws. Advocating the abolition of slavery would have led to the short chop in very short order, as one of the major fears of the patrician class was a slave rebellion. Spartacus was only about one hundred years in the past, and was still remembered. Also the role of women in the society was very much as brood mares, and not much else, and Paul was clearly a misogynist, so it is not surprising that he denigrated the role of women in the church, despite that fact that women were significant supporters of the early church - again reflecting the mores of the times. The early Christian era was not the time for women's lib - the thought would have led to his immediate execution as a dangerous rebel. ========================
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln |
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by TN4994 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:19 pm | |
TN4994
Posts: 404
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Genesis on Ham (dark skin / brown)And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without... ...Noah said: Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants, shall he be unto his brethren.... ...God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Note: God did not create slavery. Noah did. Somehow this became God's will. |
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by n7axw » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:31 pm | |
n7axw
Posts: 5997
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We are getting into deep waters here. The passage I'm referring to is in Ephesians which probably was not written by Paul himself, but by one of his disciples after Paul was gone since much of the theology was Pauline. As for Paul's attitude toward women, he was the product of his times and it is not quite fair to judge him by the values of our own. And it ignores the reality that Paul saw himself with a very tightly focused mission of spreading the Christian faith, not introducing social change. As for the rest of the Bible, Old Testament prophets and kings had slaves, apparently with divine approval. In the ancient world, slavery was a given. It was for a later time to seriously question it. Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by AClone » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:01 pm | |
AClone
Posts: 743
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I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Thirsk were testing a steel thistle silk bulletproof vest. That's justhow MWW rolls.
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Re: WARNING HFQ SPOILER! Thrisk minnisnippet poll | |
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by fallsfromtrees » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:29 pm | |
fallsfromtrees
Posts: 1960
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I like it - that's exactly how the MWW teases us. ========================
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln |
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