Anybody know anything about Solar or Geothermal energy?

Weird Harold wrote:

Aegis99 wrote:I would suspect the answer to the first question is never, as your question implies that solar is a "natural" progression of energy source after fossil fuels.

Actually, I expect Safehold to leap over internal comustion engines to electrics with Hydro, Wind, Solar, and geothermal augmenting coal-fired steam-turbine generation -- followed by nuclear steam turbine generators. There are better (and recyclable) uses for fossil fuels than burning them.

Aegis99 wrote:I would suspect the answer to the first question is never, as your question implies that solar is a "natural" progression of energy source after fossil fuels.

n7axw wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
Actually, I expect Safehold to leap over internal comustion engines to electrics with Hydro, Wind, Solar, and geothermal augmenting coal-fired steam-turbine generation -- followed by nuclear steam turbine generators. There are better (and recyclable) uses for fossil fuels than burning them.

Hi Harold,

We'll see, but I doubt it. Internal combustion engines are coming. If I'm wrong, I will buy you a drink...at the virtual bar, of course!

Don

Zakharra wrote: IC engines have to come, if only to make airplanes and for automobiles a reality. They are a logical step from steam to allowing for the common person to have access to their own vehicles, and much easier travel and trade.

SWM wrote:

Zakharra wrote: IC engines have to come, if only to make airplanes and for automobiles a reality. They are a logical step from steam to allowing for the common person to have access to their own vehicles, and much easier travel and trade.

That makes an assumption that, IMHO, is not warranted. A couple assumptions, actually. First, you are assuming that IC engines will be approved, at least in Charis, despite the fuzzy line they cross in the Proscriptions. Some have argued that this is just like steam, but I'm still not convinced that the people of Safehold would see it that way.

Second, it assumes that it will be necessary to create IC-powered vehicles and aircraft before the Truth is revealed and the Proscriptions are eliminated. If the Truth is revealed, then Safehold could skip right over IC engines to other possibilities. I feel fairly certain that the Truth will come out just after the Angelic Return. I don't think it will become necessary to develop IC engines between now and then.

Zakharra wrote: IC engines have to come, if only to make airplanes and for automobiles a reality. They are a logical step from steam to allowing for the common person to have access to their own vehicles, and much easier travel and trade.

Weird Harold wrote:
For personal automobiles: why? Personal transport is a fairly recent innovation, and arguably an artifact of the auto industry's interference in profitable light-rail systems to increase sales of busses.

For the few cases where individual transport is truly needed or desirable: Steam while the Proscriptions are still in effect and electric after.

Weird Harold wrote:

Zakharra wrote: IC engines have to come, if only to make airplanes and for automobiles a reality. They are a logical step from steam to allowing for the common person to have access to their own vehicles, and much easier travel and trade.

For aircraft, Jets or turboprop. No need for (reciprocating) IC engines. Steam is even possible as are lighter-than-air alternatives.

For personal automobiles: why? Personal transport is a fairly recent innovation, and arguably an artifact of the auto industry's interference in profitable light-rail systems to increase sales of busses.

For the few cases where individual transport is truly needed or desirable: Steam while the Proscriptions are still in effect and electric after.

Internal Combustion engines are poison spewing polluters that Safehold has a chance to avoid, thanks to Merlin and OWL. Coal fired Steam and the associated pollution created by coal mining aren't perfect solutions, but can fill most of Safehold's power needs until the Proscriptions can be voided and cleaner options become viable.

Aegis99 wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:How quickly will they move to Solar Power Generation once the Proscriptions are voided?

The same questions apply to Geothermal.

I would suspect the answer to the first question is never, as your question implies that solar is a "natural" progression of energy source after fossil fuels. By second implication you assume human energy consumption has at any point in history gone from more dense energy sources (fossil fuels) to less dense source (solar/wind/biofuel/etc). In fact the opposite is true, throughout our history we have progressively been harnessing more and more energy dense sources. At first just our own muscle power, then animal muscle power, then wind/water, then coal, then oil, then nuclear, and in the future we're talking about fusion and antimatter. Each step is about the energy density of the material.

As for geothermal a lot of the same conditions apply, hot water is in fact less energy dense than coal (1 ton of coal has a lot more potential chemical energy than 1 ton of water at 100C). geothermal is also extremely location limited, and has massive issues with corrosion in the piping from sulfur compounds. According to http://geo-energy.org/events/2014%20Ann ... 0Final.pdf there are about 12 GW of installed geothermal capacity globally right now (about 4.4 GW in the US). For perspective the 600 coal power plants in the US can generate 314 GW. There are two orders of magnitude gap between geothermal and coal power production.

Knowing the author and his stated thoughts on nuclear power, I imagine once the proscriptions are lifted you'll see Owl giving some detailed instructions on some pretty advanced coal power plants, with an eye towards graduating as soon as possible to advanced nuclear designs.