David Weber on Frigates, Part 3

jgnfld wrote:

Hutch wrote:Since this thread has returned from the dead, I would like to add one comment.

It is well-established that the MWW does not see a place for Frigates in the Honorverse at the present time.

So, of course, in Cauldron of Ghosts the only major combat actions is performed by.....RTN Frigates.

I'm grinning even as I type this.

Frigates are probably fine for giving out tickets to civilians. In system or in other systems. That is about all. Whoever hasn't seen that writing just hasn't been looking at the wall.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Really? I would think that the combat around Hancock and Neue Rostock towers would constitute major combat action, yes no? Now if you had said major naval combat action, I'd have to agree, although the frigates did damn little combat themselves - one shot up a bunch of lifeboats, and the other acted as a body guard.

I swear to Dog, folks need to develop a sense of irony around here (or give us an Irony meter smilie or something).

I know frigates are outdated in any modern navy and cannot possibly stand up to any modern force, but the only space-based combat (ahappy now, jgnfld... ) in CoG was by Frigates.

And for raiding unarmed space stations and capturing slavers, it is a most excellent tool in the hands of those who know how to use it (RTN).

To borrow from a friend long ago, when our boss was about to blow her stack..."cool your jets, folks, and enjoy the ride."

Hutch wrote:

Hutch wrote:Since this thread has returned from the dead, I would like to add one comment.

It is well-established that the MWW does not see a place for Frigates in the Honorverse at the present time.

So, of course, in Cauldron of Ghosts the only major combat actions is performed by.....RTN Frigates.

I'm grinning even as I type this.

jgnfld wrote:
Frigates are probably fine for giving out tickets to civilians. In system or in other systems. That is about all. Whoever hasn't seen that writing just hasn't been looking at the wall.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Really? I would think that the combat around Hancock and Neue Rostock towers would constitute major combat action, yes no? Now if you had said major naval combat action, I'd have to agree, although the frigates did damn little combat themselves - one shot up a bunch of lifeboats, and the other acted as a body guard.

I swear to Dog, folks need to develop a sense of irony around here (or give us an Irony meter smilie or something).

I know frigates are outdated in any modern navy and cannot possibly stand up to any modern force, but the only space-based combat (ahappy now, jgnfld... ) in CoG was by Frigates.

And for raiding unarmed space stations and capturing slavers, it is a most excellent tool in the hands of those who know how to use it (RTN).

To borrow from a friend long ago, when our boss was about to blow her stack..."cool your jets, folks, and enjoy the ride."

I understood the irony - I was just pointing out that there is more combat in CoG than the attack on the station - and that the frigates didn't really do much of that as well - basically, compared all of the earlier books, there was virtually no space based combat in CoG.

If I am not mistaken, Beowulf uses frigates for their 'Biological Survey Teams'

I've always been a bit surprised that neither Haven nor Manticore ever bothered to field a specialized ship for covert operations.

Or at least we never heard of them, that I can recall. The closest thing we've seen to it were standard navy ships.

Cheopis wrote:I've always been a bit surprised that neither Haven nor Manticore ever bothered to field a specialized ship for covert operations.

Or at least we never heard of them, that I can recall. The closest thing we've seen to it were standard navy ships.

Except for that one time, in OBS, where Haven had a purpose-built ship for intelligence purposes....

Also, what exactly are the mission parameters for a specialized covert ops ship? What can you do with them that you couldn't do with a tramp freighter or regular yacht or regular navy vessel?

The E wrote:Also, what exactly are the mission parameters for a specialized covert ops ship? What can you do with them that you couldn't do with a tramp freighter or regular yacht or regular navy vessel?

Or any other ship with a cargo hold or boat bay big enough for a reconnaissance drone or ten. Room for a covert insertion vehicle, AKA a stealthed shuttle or pinnace, wouldn't hurt, either.

Cheopis wrote:If I am not mistaken, Beowulf uses frigates for their 'Biological Survey Teams'

I've always been a bit surprised that neither Haven nor Manticore ever bothered to field a specialized ship for covert operations.

Or at least we never heard of them, that I can recall. The closest thing we've seen to it were standard navy ships.

There's no reason we would have heard of them. It has never been important to the story. I think it is quite likely that they do have such ships.

Weird Harold wrote:

The E wrote:Also, what exactly are the mission parameters for a specialized covert ops ship? What can you do with them that you couldn't do with a tramp freighter or regular yacht or regular navy vessel?

Or any other ship with a cargo hold or boat bay big enough for a reconnaissance drone or ten. Room for a covert insertion vehicle, AKA a stealthed shuttle or pinnace, wouldn't hurt, either.

I would define the ship in the story where Cardones is working with an ONI group, defeating the Crippler as a specialty ship. But Cargo bay wise, you're right, however, I think I read in one of the stories that some of the freighters are big enough to tractor an early gen- DD inside their cargo bays, and as others have stated, a hard-to-find DD makes a dandy delivery tool for covert ops folks, AND in "those days" battle armored Marines in the crew, if needed.

Cheopis wrote:I've always been a bit surprised that neither Haven nor Manticore ever bothered to field a specialized ship for covert operations.

It's kind of self-defeating to have a standard model ship used for spy missions. It's convienient, as it does make things a lot easier, once your automated systems ID it as a mantie spy ship you know what to do, but I doubt that kind of convienience is really helpful.

The E wrote:

Cheopis wrote:I've always been a bit surprised that neither Haven nor Manticore ever bothered to field a specialized ship for covert operations.

Or at least we never heard of them, that I can recall. The closest thing we've seen to it were standard navy ships.

Except for that one time, in OBS, where Haven had a purpose-built ship for intelligence purposes....

Also, what exactly are the mission parameters for a specialized covert ops ship? What can you do with them that you couldn't do with a tramp freighter or regular yacht or regular navy vessel?

Wasn't that the reason for the Talisman light cruiser? A specialized surveillance vessel built on the Apollo platform? Except for the minor fact that the anticipated mission never materialized. . .

Rob

kzt wrote:

Cheopis wrote:I've always been a bit surprised that neither Haven nor Manticore ever bothered to field a specialized ship for covert operations.

It's kind of self-defeating to have a standard model ship used for spy missions. It's convienient, as it does make things a lot easier, once your automated systems ID it as a mantie spy ship you know what to do, but I doubt that kind of convienience is really helpful.

Cheopis didn't say a standardized model for covert operations. He said a specialized ship. I took it to mean custom-model, one-of-a-kind ship. Probably multiple ships, each customized differently. And presumably built on an ordinary-looking hull.