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Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.

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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by SWM   » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:06 pm

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Just for fun, here are just a few examples of Verne's and Asimov's stories which utilized only available technologies:

Jules Verne:
Around the World in Eighty Days
Journey to the Center of the Earth
From the Earth to the Moon

Isaac Asimov:
Nightfall
"Franchise"
"Hell-fire"
"Spell My Name With an S"
"Unto the Fourth Generation"
"My Son, the Physicist"

[the librarian quietly ducks back into his stacks :) ]
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:05 pm

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Draken wrote:We're drifting out of main topic. For sure they can't get any alloys with titanium or aluminium. What about using uranium and iridium instead. Steel enriched with iridium is one of hardest alloys ever created and it shouldn't be that hard to get, only issue could be mining iridium it's one of rarest elements. Uranium could be used as core for AP bullets it isn't quite dangerous when isn't enriched. What about coal based polymers and other materials.
Is there any info about rubber and knowledge about it's wonderful qualities? If so we could use at for tires and for balloons. Nitroglycerin shouldn't be that hard to get, only problem could be with stabilizing it, cus it could blow up at anytime.

They are already making dynamite (nitroglycerin stabilized with diatomaceous earth) at a plant not far from Delthak. It will primarily be used in the construction industry, not for warfare, but it is a step in that direction.
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:11 pm

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Draken wrote:We're drifting out of main topic. For sure they can't get any alloys with titanium or aluminium. What about using uranium and iridium instead. Steel enriched with iridium is one of hardest alloys ever created and it shouldn't be that hard to get, only issue could be mining iridium it's one of rarest elements. Uranium could be used as core for AP bullets it isn't quite dangerous when isn't enriched. What about coal based polymers and other materials.
Is there any info about rubber and knowledge about it's wonderful qualities? If so we could use at for tires and for balloons. Nitroglycerin shouldn't be that hard to get, only problem could be with stabilizing it, cus it could blow up at anytime.

All of the platinum group metals are extremely difficult to refine, and have very high melting temperatures. The most general method today requires aqua regia (nitric and hydrochloric acid mixture), the production of which in quantity requires electricity. Not happening any time soon.
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by 6L6   » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:48 pm

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SWM, you forgot Twenty Thousand Leagues, Foundation and Robots
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by TN4994   » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:14 pm

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6L6 wrote:SWM, you forgot Twenty Thousand Leagues, Foundation and Robots

Robots? Seek out that old inventor Leonardo da Vinci.
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:27 pm

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6L6 wrote:SWM, you forgot Twenty Thousand Leagues, Foundation and Robots

Twenty Thousand Leagues used nuclear power (or something that could be viewed as nuclear power) for the Nautilus which wasn't available at the time Verne wrote it.
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by SWM   » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:57 pm

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6L6 wrote:SWM, you forgot Twenty Thousand Leagues, Foundation and Robots

All great books, but they did all use technology which was unavailable at the time of writing.
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:07 am

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Verne was extremely vague on how Nemo generated the electricity for the Nautilus but I don't believe nuclear power was even dreamed of when he wrote the book.

Now the Disney movie was a different story. The Disney Nautilus was nuclear powered.


fallsfromtrees wrote:
6L6 wrote:SWM, you forgot Twenty Thousand Leagues, Foundation and Robots

Twenty Thousand Leagues used nuclear power (or something that could be viewed as nuclear power) for the Nautilus which wasn't available at the time Verne wrote it.
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by fleadermouse   » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:26 am

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Last I checked there were no active oil or gas fields on safehold nor have I seen any real indication of the drilling technology to put them in. An oil field does not go in over night. Ten plus years from start of project to first production is common.

So while the refining conversation has been very interesting there is no feedstock to refine

The other thing I have noticed in this thread is a distinct lack of understanding between small scale production techniques and industrial production techniques. In most cases small scale will NOT scale up in the petrochemical world. I wish I cold give you a logical reason why but most of the CE guys that I worked with didn't even have concrete reasons. Just to be clear not scale up usually means catastrophic failure.

From a pharmaceutical point of view we might be able to use plant or animal oils from a fuel point of view you need crude in quantity. Look up fuel consumption for something like the King Harold's whale oil or fire vine is not going to cut it.

Finally back to the Acids, yes they can be made in other ways like mixing halogens and nonmetal oxides with water but you have to make the chlorine etc. first. All industrial acids can be made from concentrated sulfuric which is most commonly manufactured as a byproduct from electrolytic separation of metals in areas that have lots of cheap electricity like the Tennessee Vally River Authority.

Without electricity Large Scale production of acids is very expensive and dangerous.

Sulfuric acid production is the backbone of the chemicals industry it is used in countless processes and without it the entire industry grinds to a halt.
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Re: Chemistry and misc. stuff concerning it.
Post by Aegis99   » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:24 am

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fleadermouse wrote:Last I checked there were no active oil or gas fields on safehold nor have I seen any real indication of the drilling technology to put them in. An oil field does not go in over night. Ten plus years from start of project to first production is common.


While that is common today (or even longer) you need to look back in history to get a proper perspective on how long projects used to take. The early pioneers of oil drilling used only steam powered hammer drills and had no understanding of the true nature of how oil is made, moves, and accumulates. Yet Drake produced the first intentional oil well in only a few months in 1858. In 1901 Spindletop was drilled to about 600 feet down and the salt dome was producing 100,000 barrels a day within 11 months. I challenge anybody to claim that 100,000 barrels a day would not be enough to kick start an oil industry, especially considering that the first use I would propose for the oil would be as fuel oil in naval boilers. Also, standard oil went from founding to mega-corp with a global monopoly in only three decades between 1870 and 1900.

We have textev that Owl has already identified promising fields, so if a clue can be dropped where to drill (and I imagine Owl can be very specific on a good place to start), then Charis could have an oil industry in a few years, not the decade you might imagine.
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