Nanites

If my memory is working properly they were discussing conscription when they were preparing invasion on Corisande.

BarryKirk wrote:People are already saying things about the water in Chairs.

I'd also like something in the nanite mix that kills captured soldiers quickly when they are submitted to the question to reduce their suffering.

If this type of thing were available, I think it would have been used in AFaF to kill on Manthyr and his crews while on their way to Zion. Not all at once, but since a few men were dying "naturally" every night, up the number who die each night so that by the time they reasch Zion, Clyntahn has nothing. The weren't doing autopsies "Throw their bodies in the garbage pits with the rest of the garbage", so any oddities in their deaths are not likely to be noticed.

Also, since they were going overland, at some point they had to cross a bridge or two. It shouldn't have been that hard to predict several days in advance one of the bridges, have OWL's stealthed remotes plant about 100lbs of C4 (or modern equivalent) under the bridge, and when the convoy is crossing the bridge, blow it up remotely, killing the prisoners in a rather obvious manner. Nothing sinister or magical here, just saboteurs. Leaving note around that "we know how to deal with heretics" would probably have triggered Clyntahn's wrath against the local populace, an not be a good idea. although slapping the name of the local Schuelerite intendant on it could be mildly amusing.

People, Merlin had to medically scan everyone he gave the nanites to in order to build said nanites. This isn't something he could distribute on a mass scale.

Duckk wrote:People, Merlin had to medically scan everyone he gave the nanites to in order to build said nanites. This isn't something he could distribute on a mass scale.

True statement. Still, he could do it for senior people, like Eastshare and BGV - of course we don't know he doesn't routinely do it for members of the inner circle. I'm certain he has done it for Stonar, and possibly other senior members of the Siddarmark government. Wouldn't do to have them dying of the flu.

WRT my previous post, granted he couldn't have used the nanites, even today we know of poisons that will cause deaths that mimic heart attacks or strokes. Why weren;t those used to keep the prisoners from being put to the Question?

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Duckk wrote:People, Merlin had to medically scan everyone he gave the nanites to in order to build said nanites. This isn't something he could distribute on a mass scale.

True statement. Still, he could do it for senior people, like Eastshare and BGV - of course we don't know he doesn't routinely do it for members of the inner circle. I'm certain he has done it for Stonar, and possibly other senior members of the Siddarmark government. Wouldn't do to have them dying of the flu.

WRT my previous post, granted he couldn't have used the nanites, even today we know of poisons that will cause deaths that mimic heart attacks or strokes. Why weren;t those used to keep the prisoners from being put to the Question?

Gaad, that would be bad.
Nanites could make the torture last longer.

fallsfromtrees wrote:
=== SNIP ===

WRT my previous post, granted he couldn't have used the nanites, even today we know of poisons that will cause deaths that mimic heart attacks or strokes. Why weren;t those used to keep the prisoners from being put to the Question?

Once they were at the Temple, Merlin was constrained, he has demonstrated great caution by being 'ordinary' when in proximity to the Temple. On the road to the Temple, the prisoners were guarded day&night (almost said 24/7 oops) and a total die-off might have been enough to cause dangerous thoughts. Then again, if you don't kill everyone, how do you chose between loyal men? UGLY thoughts!

Charybdis wrote:Once they were at the Temple, Merlin was constrained, he has demonstrated great caution by being 'ordinary' when in proximity to the Temple. On the road to the Temple, the prisoners were guarded day&night (almost said 24/7 oops) and a total die-off might have been enough to cause dangerous thoughts. Then again, if you don't kill everyone, how do you chose between loyal men? UGLY thoughts!

OWL's remotes certainly could have administered a deadly dose of any sort of poison and killed off the prisoners a few at a time long before they reached Zion. Frankly it's an excellent idea that ought to have occurred to Merlin, but we have to concede that finding ways to kill off your friends and fellow soldiers is foreign to one's normal mode of thinking.

I like the idea of using OWL's remotes to destroy a bridge as the convoy went over it. That's thinking out of the box. They'd have had to use black powder charges though.

The Inquisition's horrific treatment of the Charisian prisoners is crucial to the overall plot, and one of the main reasons that Staynair decreed death to all inquisitors. It gives Merlin a motivation for revenge, hence his "Mab" character citing the martyr's names in the scene in which he impaled an inquisitor in LAMA. Both Cayleb and Sharley swore vengeance and thought of the day the fleet would sail into Temple Bay and start unloading the troops because of it. Two of the first three Haarahld VII's are named after the commander and the cabin boy.

So yes, there were a couple of ways to have stopped the Charisian prisoners from getting to Zion alive, but RFC needed them as martyrs for the plot. It gives Charis a burning and righteous desire for vengeance, and a reason to execute inquisitors, which is always a good thing!

I'm not sure that Merlin would have killed the prisoners. Merlin has a deeply inbred respect for life. He also is a strong believer in choice. Any of those prisoners could have arranged their own death, or the deaths of their fellow prisoners. They knew what they were going to face. They chose not to. I don't think Merlin would have wanted to override their choice.

SWM wrote:I'm not sure that Merlin would have killed the prisoners. Merlin has a deeply inbred respect for life. He also is a strong believer in choice. Any of those prisoners could have arranged their own death, or the deaths of their fellow prisoners. They knew what they were going to face. They chose not to. I don't think Merlin would have wanted to override their choice.

Also if prisoners will start dying without any cause, it would be just weird. Better way to prevent any leaks is to give information to smaller circle of people, if they don't know they won't tell.
Anyway nanites for highest ranking officers are needed ASAP, they're in the middle of northern winter and in time of war. They could be killed by virus, shot by traitor and they could be killed in 100 or so of different ways.
What about creating small unit of special forces? I mean forces trained by Merlin and they would use modern weapon and would receive nanites and proper armor from Merlin? They couldn't be used on normal field of battle, but what about using them to eliminate high ranking officers, destroy semaphore stations, eliminate patrols etc?

Draken wrote:

SWM wrote:I'm not sure that Merlin would have killed the prisoners. Merlin has a deeply inbred respect for life. He also is a strong believer in choice. Any of those prisoners could have arranged their own death, or the deaths of their fellow prisoners. They knew what they were going to face. They chose not to. I don't think Merlin would have wanted to override their choice.

Also if prisoners will start dying without any cause, it would be just weird. Better way to prevent any leaks is to give information to smaller circle of people, if they don't know they won't tell.
Anyway nanites for highest ranking officers are needed ASAP, they're in the middle of northern winter and in time of war. They could be killed by virus, shot by traitor and they could be killed in 100 or so of different ways.
What about creating small unit of special forces? I mean forces trained by Merlin and they would use modern weapon and would receive nanites and proper armor from Merlin? They couldn't be used on normal field of battle, but what about using them to eliminate high ranking officers, destroy semaphore stations, eliminate patrols etc?

There were significant numbers of prisoners that were dying anyway due to the treatment they were receiving on the road to Zion, to the point that one of the inquisitors wondered if even 20 would make it alive to Zion. I suspect that if the number does get down to 20 or so, that there are going to be changes to the way they are treated.

As far as the fact that they were guarded "24/7" - yes they were, but OWL's remotes can be mad every small - most of the SNARC remotes are almost microscopic. Certainly something the size of a housefly (or the Safeholdian equivalent is not going to be noticed, and it could nip it and deliver a bite which injects whatever poison has been selected.

The possibility of killing or rescuing the prisoners if they were sent by water was discussed and removed from the table when it turned out the prisoners were to be sent by land.

As far as using black powder, yes soem would have to be used, just so there will be some appropriate residue and smell from the explosion for the investigators, but otherwise, you should be able to use an appropriate high explosive, as there won't be any thing left for the Inquisition to investigate, and so far, there is no textev whatsoever for forensic science on Safehold. It appears that the Inquisition approach to investigation is to identify someone who was near by, and then get him to confess for he "good of his soul".