Logic behind splitting Lacoon?

lyonheart wrote:Hi Vince,

Except the Courvosier II BCP was described in War of Honor as being only ~1.3 MT not 1.75 [the IAN's BCP's were in the 1.1 MT range], but Bu9 decided to disregard almost all such numeric details through out the series without any attempt to explain any of their decisions by getting RFC to approve their fiat figures in HoS despite all the obvious conflicts.

L

Yup. Never understood why on earth they did that on GSN BCP. Fell through the cracks probably or RFC really did ret-con it. Nit pic really other than they did not deign to tell us the reason.

Except the Courvosier II BCP was described in War of Honor as being only ~1.3 MT not 1.75 [the IAN's BCP's were in the 1.1 MT range], but Bu9 decided to disregard almost all such numeric details through out the series without any attempt to explain any of their decisions by getting RFC to approve their fiat figures in HoS despite all the obvious conflicts.

I'd like to see you shove 300-ish pods into a BC hull and still have room left over for little things like crew and propulsion. It pisses me off that you think we discarded things willy nilly, as if we didn't give a shit about what we were doing. I damn well guarantee that we spent far more time than you playing around with how these ships work, and as a consequence of that some things that David wrote flat out doesn't work.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Vince,

Except the Courvosier II BCP was described in War of Honor as being only ~1.3 MT not 1.75 [the IAN's BCP's were in the 1.1 MT range], but Bu9 decided to disregard almost all such numeric details through out the series without any attempt to explain any of their decisions by getting RFC to approve their fiat figures in HoS despite all the obvious conflicts.

Do you have a quote handy for that? I combed through WoH and couldn't find a single absolute or relative refernce to the size of the Courvoisier II or the IAN's Thor-class BC(P)s.

I finally realized you might have gotten the book wrong and found a hint on the GSN BC(P)s in AAC, where RHN Rear Admiral Beach think the RMN BC(P)s are considerably larger than [what the RHN intel lists for] the GSN ones. But nothing that would let you nail it down any more accurately that between 1 - 2 mtons and "considerably smaller" than RMN BC(P)s [which after action RHN intel placed at "somewhere around one-point-seven to one-point-eight megatons"]. But still nothing on the IAN ones.

(And if you wanted to explain that discrepancy it you could simply claim that RHN intel had bad data on the Courvoisier II - unless there's a more authoritative listing of their mass that I didn't find)

Relax wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Vince,

Except the Courvosier II BCP was described in War of Honor as being only ~1.3 MT not 1.75 [the IAN's BCP's were in the 1.1 MT range], but Bu9 decided to disregard almost all such numeric details through out the series without any attempt to explain any of their decisions by getting RFC to approve their fiat figures in HoS despite all the obvious conflicts.

L

Yup. Never understood why on earth they did that on GSN BCP. Fell through the cracks probably or RFC really did ret-con it. Nit pic really other than they did not deign to tell us the reason.

It was probably just a typo or misprint; in rough figures, it was probably supposed to be 1.8MT in the first place. If you proof it fast, you miss it. Just ask for a clarification, BuNine could check the notes on it. They do have an errata list.

Lyon, you never heard of tact, did you? And you got Duckk up on the wrong side of the bed.

Regards,
Rob

lyonheart wrote:Hi Vince,

Except the Courvosier II BCP was described in War of Honor as being only ~1.3 MT not 1.75 [the IAN's BCP's were in the 1.1 MT range], but Bu9 decided to disregard almost all such numeric details through out the series without any attempt to explain any of their decisions by getting RFC to approve their fiat figures in HoS despite all the obvious conflicts.

L

Snipped for brevity

I am not touching tonnage.

Weren't the Andermani BC's with pods using half-pods hard mounted to the exterior of the hulls? Where they would presumable be in the way of sensors?

It occurs to me that they don't have gunports for their pods, so those can only be used for the initial salvo, unless you are going to fight without a sidewall.

Essentially, 1st Haven War tactics.

Did they even build a Manti-style pod laying BC at that point? Even their MDMs were oversized dual drive units during WoH.

Rob

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Vince,

Except the Courvosier II BCP was described in War of Honor as being only ~1.3 MT not 1.75 [the IAN's BCP's were in the 1.1 MT range], but Bu9 decided to disregard almost all such numeric details through out the series without any attempt to explain any of their decisions by getting RFC to approve their fiat figures in HoS despite all the obvious conflicts.

L

Snipped for brevity

I am not touching tonnage.

Weren't the Andermani BC's with pods using half-pods hard mounted to the exterior of the hulls? Where they would presumable be in the way of sensors?

It occurs to me that they don't have gunports for their pods, so those can only be used for the initial salvo, unless you are going to fight without a sidewall.

Essentially, 1st Haven War tactics.

Did they even build a Manti-style pod laying BC at that point? Even their MDMs were oversized dual drive units during WoH.

Rob

They did start by simply mounting half-pods on the exterior. But before they joined the Manticoran Alliance as an affiliated power, they had already developed a home-grown pod-layer BC.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Snipped for brevity

I am not touching tonnage.

Weren't the Andermani BC's with pods using half-pods hard mounted to the exterior of the hulls? Where they would presumable be in the way of sensors?

It occurs to me that they don't have gunports for their pods, so those can only be used for the initial salvo, unless you are going to fight without a sidewall.

Essentially, 1st Haven War tactics.

Did they even build a Manti-style pod laying BC at that point? Even their MDMs were oversized dual drive units during WoH.

Rob

Yes, WoH is clear that their new Thor-class BCs are BC(P)s with a big honking hatch on the aft hammer head to roll pods out of.

What we don't (appear) to know is their actual displacement, how many pods they carried, or even what kind of missile was in those pods.

We do know from elsewhere that MDMs Andermani SD(P)s carried were roughly as large as Haven's MDM but were a 2-drive capacitor powered missile, rather than Haven's 3-drive capacitor powered ones.
And of course from the cruiser fights in WoH we know that the Andermani CAs had internally launched ERMs. So it seems to me that their BC(P) might have carried pods of (very large) DDMs or pods of (smaller) ERMs. Depends on whether they went for range or missile numbers.

Jonathan_S wrote:
Yes, WoH is clear that their new Thor-class BCs are BC(P)s with a big honking hatch on the aft hammer head to roll pods out of.

What we don't (appear) to know is their actual displacement, how many pods they carried, or even what kind of missile was in those pods.

We do know from elsewhere that MDMs Andermani SD(P)s carried were roughly as large as Haven's MDM but were a 2-drive capacitor powered missile, rather than Haven's 3-drive capacitor powered ones.
And of course from the cruiser fights in WoH we know that the Andermani CAs had internally launched ERMs. So it seems to me that their BC(P) might have carried pods of (very large) DDMs or pods of (smaller) ERMs. Depends on whether they went for range or missile numbers.

Thanks, I forgot them. It was the size of their captital ship missiles that hit my skepticism button.

Rob

I just had an interesting thought that fits here as well as anywhere else [any bc(p) thread, for example], but all the way back in Honor of the Queen we read that Warshawski sails DRAW power to the ship, meaning that a ship on station "in Hyper" doesn't have to use it's fusion bunkerage a whole lot if at all.

So, Laccoon II wise, you're a Sag-C captain with your accompanying DDs and the dropped off LACs on station out there in the wormhole boondocks a long way from home, which is enough to give just about any medium to large FF formation the mother of all headaches if they try to take it back. Meanwhile, bring in ONE bc(p) and park it just outside the hyper limit /resonance zone in that system.

330 pods * 14 Mark-16-G missiles, plus what the Sag C and destroyers add to the mix. Now you're likely up to taking out 10-20 SDs, let alone FF battle cruiser task group size formations. Yes/no?

SharkHunter wrote:I just had an interesting thought that fits here as well as anywhere else [any bc(p) thread, for example], but all the way back in Honor of the Queen we read that Warshawski sails DRAW power to the ship, meaning that a ship on station "in Hyper" doesn't have to use it's fusion bunkerage a whole lot if at all.

So, Laccoon II wise, you're a Sag-C captain with your accompanying DDs and the dropped off LACs on station out there in the wormhole boondocks a long way from home, which is enough to give just about any medium to large FF formation the mother of all headaches if they try to take it back. Meanwhile, bring in ONE bc(p) and park it just outside the hyper limit /resonance zone in that system.

330 pods * 14 Mark-16-G missiles, plus what the Sag C and destroyers add to the mix. Now you're likely up to taking out 10-20 SDs, let alone FF battle cruiser task group size formations. Yes/no?

To clarify, a Warshawski sails draws power when the ship is in a grav wave.
Most inhabited systems don't lie directly within a grav wave, so simply popping up into hyper wouldn't let you shut down your reactors.

(And warships probably wouldn't want to do a reactor cold shutdown anyway because there might be delays getting them back online if an emergency came up and you had to pounce down into n-space)