Advanced tech without electricity/internal combustion?

Randomiser wrote:

TN4994 wrote:
The Stirling engine!!!
Why do we develop one technology over another.
Cost, and ease of manufacture and maintenance are a few of the reasons.
Another is generating interest in one over the other.
Safehold has the Prohibitions interfering with technological development as well.
I wonder if we could sneak a hand-crank flashlight (torch) past an inquisitor (for a price).

Henry Brown wrote:Regarding the hand-crank flashlight idea, you COULD make the argument that it is muscle powered. Which is allowable. I realize that this is a bit of a stretch in the interpretation. But is it really more of a stretch than the argument Paityr Wylsynn put forth when he ruled that steam was permissible under the proscriptions?

Yes! And they won't be producing tungsten filament bulbs any time soon either.

Henry Brown wrote:
Regarding the hand-crank flashlight idea, you COULD make the argument that it is muscle powered. Which is allowable. I realize that this is a bit of a stretch in the interpretation. But is it really more of a stretch than the argument Paityr Wylsynn put forth when he ruled that steam was permissible under the proscriptions?

Belial666 wrote:I was considering how Safehold could develop the following technologies without use of the two crucial techs of the 20th century;

1) Automobiles, and by extension armored vehicles.
2) Submarines.
3) Domestic appliances.
4) Airplanes.


Beyond the political/theological issues, Safehold tech base would need to mature a lot more before internal combustion was introduced. However, it doesn't need to - becauce Charis' steelworks are already producing high quality steel and Charis has experience with renewable energy sources and steam engines.

I believe the answer to be compressed air energy storage;


a) Compressed air energy storage compares favorably to metal-acid batteries to energy density, ease of manufacture, recycleability and base materials. It basically needs quality steel to be made into high-pressure containers, something Charis is essentially already going for with its artillery manufacture.

b) Charis already knows how to make compressed-air engines since they are basically steam engines without combustion chambers.

c) Once compressed air is available, liquid oxygen for use in submarines is easy to make. This would allow burning of fuel in a sub while submerged.

d) For airplanes, liquid oxygen and hydrogen is usable both in conventional engines and as rocket fuel. Steel tanks of compressed air would be too heavy for airplane use except in quite brief flights, however Safehold has steel thistle silk, which is comparable to artificial fibers in strength. Containers of what is essentially a Kevlar analog would be light enough to power even an air-turbine aircraft.

AirTech wrote:High pressure water was reticulated around most major cities in the late 1800's to power lifts and escalators. (The underground pipes got reused in the 1990's to run fiber optics...). High pressure hydraulics could run most home appliances quite easily (other than the lights...).

AirTech wrote:

Henry Brown wrote:
Regarding the hand-crank flashlight idea, you COULD make the argument that it is muscle powered. Which is allowable. I realize that this is a bit of a stretch in the interpretation. But is it really more of a stretch than the argument Paityr Wylsynn put forth when he ruled that steam was permissible under the proscriptions?

The other argument is on the if its isn't broke, why fix it - a kerosene or carbide light will work for most cases, and hydrogen where more extreme light levels are required (see Limelight). (Establishing a steady consumption of kerosene is important to developing a petrochemical industry).

Draken wrote:So what about using kerosene or other light fraction of oil as fuel, when Merlin will show them the most efficient way to get cracking running, oil shouldn't be a very big problem.

TN4994 wrote:

Draken wrote:So what about using kerosene or other light fraction of oil as fuel, when Merlin will show them the most efficient way to get cracking running, oil shouldn't be a very big problem.

It was written about kraken oil for lamps, and firevine oil for lubricants.