GOD EXISTS

Think about some of the earliest manipulations of the bible.
Adam's rib. Nevermind the first chapter that said man and women were created at the same instant.
Think about this: all the animals were made male and female before man was made. God tells the birds, fish and beasts of the earth to be fruitful and multiply. In chapter 2 God creates woman as an afterthought?
In Cain and Able, God likes sacrificed Ram. Anyone care to guess the Egyptian god? Hint he was credited with creation of the universe, and had a ram's head.
Then we have the ancient God Moloch.
Big with child sacrifice and blood atonement rituals. Had a high temple in what the bible calls Sodom. The leaders of the temple and the city were High Priestesses.
Females, who wanted Lot to introduce them to his guests.
Oh, I left out the High Priest (king) of Salem ensuring that Abram and Lot received their fair portion of the victory feast (tithe).
I know it's confusing for some, but Melchizedek was the host of the feast. I think that's enough for now.

PeterZ wrote:
Of course God can tell the poor sod he sinned. Being justified is being in a relationship with God. If one relies on soley on third parties to define that relationship and one doesn't do anything to personally develop that relationship, one shouldn't be surprised if the afterlife offers less that pleasant surprises.

You know Peter, that sounds an awful lot like Gnostic heresy. (I think I got the right system there)

Annachie wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
Of course God can tell the poor sod he sinned. Being justified is being in a relationship with God. If one relies on soley on third parties to define that relationship and one doesn't do anything to personally develop that relationship, one shouldn't be surprised if the afterlife offers less that pleasant surprises.

You know Peter, that sounds an awful lot like Gnostic heresy. (I think I got the right system there)

Not really. Its a basic tenet of Christianity. God wants a relationship with us individually not an organization. The organization comes from people who are in relationships with Him already. This last is emphasized differently by the different Christian denominations.

PeterZ wrote:
Of course God can tell the poor sod he sinned. Being justified is being in a relationship with God. If one relies on soley on third parties to define that relationship and one doesn't do anything to personally develop that relationship, one shouldn't be surprised if the afterlife offers less that pleasant surprises.

Annachie wrote:You know Peter, that sounds an awful lot like Gnostic heresy. (I think I got the right system there)

PeterZ wrote:Not really. Its a basic tenet of Christianity. God wants a relationship with us individually not an organization. The organization comes from people who are in relationships with Him already. This last is emphasized differently by the different Christian denominations.

More often the organization comes from people who are working the system for their own benefit. It was Martin Luther who came up with the priesthood of all believers at the start of the Reformation in an attempt to break the lock that the Church had as mediators between God and man, and yet virtually all of the Protestant churches now have hierarchies almost as bad as the Catholic Church. If you don't believe that much of the hierarchy in the Catholic church is dedicated to the structure of the church, and not to the relationship of God and man, I refer you to the ongoing scandals regarding sexual abuse in the church, where senior officials of the church repeatedly and frequently just moved offenders around rather than do anything effective about them. The church has a long history of "This guy is becoming a problem, we'll just move him over him, and hope the problem goes away"

It does seem to be a bit unfair. Your priest tells you to go and kill that witch, your are unsure so check with the bishop who confirms it is the right thing to do, then when being judged god says they were wrong so you are doomed.

Daryl wrote:It does seem to be a bit unfair. Your priest tells you to go and kill that witch, your are unsure so check with the bishop who confirms it is the right thing to do, then when being judged god says they were wrong so you are doomed.

Your guy should have read the Bible, checked the passages the priest and bishop used to conclude what they did and prayed about the question. Claiming he is just following orders means your guy abrogated his responsibility to the God he says he believes in. Again, the personal relationship to God is paramount, the church is secondary.

PeterZ wrote:

Daryl wrote:It does seem to be a bit unfair. Your priest tells you to go and kill that witch, your are unsure so check with the bishop who confirms it is the right thing to do, then when being judged god says they were wrong so you are doomed.

Your guy should have read the Bible, checked the passages the priest and bishop used to conclude what they did and prayed about the question. Claiming he is just following orders means your guy abrogated his responsibility to the God he says he believes in. Again, the personal relationship to God is paramount, the church is secondary.

Exodus 22:18 KJV
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Leviticus chapters 19 and 20.
Also see Deuteronomy 18:9 to 18:14 - Galatians 5:18 to 5:23 - 1 Samuel 15:23.

TN4994 wrote:Exodus 22:18 KJV
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Leviticus chapters 19 and 20.
Also see Deuteronomy 18:9 to 18:14 - Galatians 5:18 to 5:23 - 1 Samuel 15:23.

The problem is that is is now fairly certain the the word which was translated as witch in the KJV actually referred to a woman who poisoned her husband.

One of the many problems with translations, particularly translations from Hebrew, since the ancient Hebrew texts did NOT have the diacritical marks to indicate vowels, so a number of similar words looked the same, but were pronounced differently due to the vowel shift.

Sorry, but this is just too weird.

Back in the 1890's, the Catholic Church declared that Americanism is a heretical idea. Specifically the endorsement of the separation of church and state.

TN4994 wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
Your guy should have read the Bible, checked the passages the priest and bishop used to conclude what they did and prayed about the question. Claiming he is just following orders means your guy abrogated his responsibility to the God he says he believes in. Again, the personal relationship to God is paramount, the church is secondary.

Exodus 22:18 KJV
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Leviticus chapters 19 and 20.
Also see Deuteronomy 18:9 to 18:14 - Galatians 5:18 to 5:23 - 1 Samuel 15:23.

Does this accused practice witchcraft in the sense of willingly using demons to engage in spells? Does this individual practice human sacrifice? Or does this individual simply make the claim of being a witch but doesn't practice any of these vile things.

Not sure? Read the other passages in the Bible. Try Mark 12: 28-34. The most importants begin at 30 and 31.
Love the Lord God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
The second is this: Love you neighbor as yourself. There are no commandments greater than these.
Still unsure? Pray about the accused and consider if he/she actually consorts with demons or sacrifices other human beings.

If after this you are convinced the accused has sacrificed human lives and has consorted with demons, then act according to your conscience. This way you get punished or rewarded in the afterlife for your own considered decisions and not because you just followed orders.