GOD EXISTS

How about if you do something bad but don't repent because your church says it wasn't bad? Does god judge you on what ever her church says or on an absolute level? Things like persecuting gays or other religions come to mind.

Daryl wrote:How about if you do something bad but don't repent because your church says it wasn't bad? Does god judge you on what ever her church says or on an absolute level? Things like persecuting gays or other religions come to mind.

Or lying taking 10% of a family's income.

cthia wrote:I stand on one side of the fence. You stand on the other.

You have made it clear that you are standing where you choose.
I have made it clear that I am standing where I choose.

That fence is yours, not mine; I do not feel a need to keep people out. Or in.

I may be sad that you are standing on the other side of the fence, but I am not angry, with you.

You may, or may not, be sad because of my location to you.
But your post makes it obvious that you are angry.

Not angry, but definitely annoyed by your pronouncement that because I do not worship one figment of your imagination, I must worship another one; also your use of that worn-out old fallacious argument. So I call bullshit, and say it good and loud so there can be no mistake.

I feel like the judge trying to issue a verdict in a case in which neither side has presented any evidence. Lots of argument, plenty of drama and histrionics, but NO evidence.
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

Daryl wrote:How about if you do something bad but don't repent because your church says it wasn't bad? Does god judge you on what ever her church says or on an absolute level? Things like persecuting gays or other religions come to mind.

The sin is secondary. The relationship with God is primary. His Word is the best guide to building that relationship. Whatever impedes that relationship is sin. Thinking of sin as doing evil is not quite right. Think of sin as whatever keeps you from choosing to enter a relationship with God.

As for gays, read the Bible and decide for yourself. If you believe homosexuality is ok after researching it and you want to relate to God, I suspect He won't hold it against you even if you turned out to be wrong in your belief. It is up to Him in the end not any Church.

The Bible says that man was made in the image of God. As with many things I believe that this is backwards - God is made in the image of man, and that all too many people insist on restricting God to their specific image of him, since obviously God must be smart enough to agree with them. Yes, I believe in God. Do I claim to understand him in all of his aspects - a million times no. The belief in God is a matter of faith, and as the mircomanager Paul says, "Faith is the belief in things unseen." Do I insist that you have to believe as I do, or you are going to Hell. Again, NO. My belief is in a God that is much larger than I can encompass in my own mind, and I believe that my attempting to define what he considers as acceptable behavior is bound to result in my violating what he considers to be acceptable behavior. I consider one of the most significant verses in the Bible to be "Judge not, lest ye be judged". Am I going to fail at this sometimes - yes, I'm only human. I will still continue to live my life by the golden rule (which exists in most of the world's religions in one form or another - I will do unto others as I would have them do unto me, and let the chips fall where they may at the end of my life.

Daryl is no doubt refering to the Crusades, whether he knows it or not.

Amongst many other things (crusades both in Richard the Lionheart and GW Bush's times). But witch burning and persecution of those who are different feature as well.
I can imagine someone at the pearly gates saying "Well my bishop said I should go out and torture the village herb wives before burning them alive, so you can't tell me I sinned in doing so and enjoying it at the time."

Annachie wrote:Daryl is no doubt refering to the Crusades, whether he knows it or not.

Daryl wrote:Amongst many other things (crusades both in Richard the Lionheart and GW Bush's times). But witch burning and persecution of those who are different feature as well.
I can imagine someone at the pearly gates saying "Well my bishop said I should go out and torture the village herb wives before burning them alive, so you can't tell me I sinned in doing so and enjoying it at the time."

Annachie wrote:Daryl is no doubt refering to the Crusades, whether he knows it or not.

Of course God can tell the poor sod he sinned. Being justified is being in a relationship with God. If one relies on soley on third parties to define that relationship and one doesn't do anything to personally develop that relationship, one shouldn't be surprised if the afterlife offers less that pleasant surprises.

PeterZ wrote:
Of course God can tell the poor sod he sinned. Being justified is being in a relationship with God. If one relies on soley on third parties to define that relationship and one doesn't do anything to personally develop that relationship, one shouldn't be surprised if the afterlife offers less that pleasant surprises.

The church and Church certainly had no problem with killing people in order to save their soul. Especially those they deemed heretics and/or witches or Jews (blaming the Jewish faith and practitioners for something that happened many hundreds of years ago). Witches for example; by burning, beheading, crushing (rocks on the chest), drowning (thrown into a pond or lake or river tied up, sometimes with rocks tied to you. If you float you're a witch and were killed, devil take your polluted soul. If you sank and drown, then you were innocent. Everyone would be saddened that you died, but you are at least safe from further harm or corruption.). So relying just on the word of god as interpreted by men is kind of dangerous. given enough time, you can find justification to do the most horrendous acts in the name of God in the Bible.

Zakharra wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
Of course God can tell the poor sod he sinned. Being justified is being in a relationship with God. If one relies on soley on third parties to define that relationship and one doesn't do anything to personally develop that relationship, one shouldn't be surprised if the afterlife offers less that pleasant surprises.

The church and Church certainly had no problem with killing people in order to save their soul. Especially those they deemed heretics and/or witches or Jews (blaming the Jewish faith and practitioners for something that happened many hundreds of years ago). Witches for example; by burning, beheading, crushing (rocks on the chest), drowning (thrown into a pond or lake or river tied up, sometimes with rocks tied to you. If you float you're a witch and were killed, devil take your polluted soul. If you sank and drown, then you were innocent. Everyone would be saddened that you died, but you are at least safe from further harm or corruption.). So relying just on the word of god as interpreted by men is kind of dangerous. given enough time, you can find justification to do the most horrendous acts in the name of God in the Bible.

Cue song: "One Tin Soldier."