Battle armor and misc stuff about land forces

Err, really? Some quick Googling shows this to be the opposite, plus I know .50 cal sniper rifles were used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Just so you all know--shooting an infantryman with a .50 cal is a violation of the laws of war. It is supposed to be used only on non-living things like vehicles. Not that it doesn't happen anyway, but the Good Guys are supposed to avoid it.


At least, that was what they told us on the firing ranges at Ft Benning when I did the 11C MOS.

Rob

n7axw wrote:???And just what is it that the .50 cal is good for shooting??? An honest question by the way... I have no background to answer it so I am not being intentionally sarcastic...

Everything that needs shooting when you have one handy. Except tanks, don't shoot tanks with one, it just pisses them off and then they shoot you.

Duckk wrote:Err, really? Some quick Googling shows this to be the opposite, plus I know .50 cal sniper rifles were used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Just so you all know--shooting an infantryman with a .50 cal is a violation of the laws of war. It is supposed to be used only on non-living things like vehicles. Not that it doesn't happen anyway, but the Good Guys are supposed to avoid it.


At least, that was what they told us on the firing ranges at Ft Benning when I did the 11C MOS.

Rob

As I said, that was what they told us at the time.

I went to Ft Benning in 1977 as a National Guardsman; the only .50 cals we trained on were the M2 heavy machine guns. We were told it violated the 1949 geneva convention to use them on people, you were supposed to shoot the vehicle they were riding in. Like that is different, somehow.

The .50 Cal sniper rifle was developed either during or immediately after the Vietnam War; but that weapon is not fully automatic. The previous sniper gun was a WWII M1, I think.

The drill instructors I had said not to use the M-2HB against people, its role is to lay down suppressive fire, and it is far more effective against vehicles than the M14 or M16.

They told us a lot of stuff, some of which was even true.

But I just looked it up, and it is legal. It may be that they told us that at the time because my training platoon was all from the National Guard (it wasn't that long after Kent State). And we wasted an awful lot of training time learning crowd control techniques using batons when the Pope flew into Boston.

When I went active in 1980, I changed MOS to EW/Sigint (98G), so I never deployed with active duty infantry. The only weapon I ended up cleaning in my first deployment was my re-machined XM-16.


Rob

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
As I said, that was what they told us at the time.

I went to Ft Benning in 1977 as a National Guardsman; the only .50 cals we trained on were the M2 heavy machine guns. We were told it violated the 1949 geneva convention to use them on people, you were supposed to shoot the vehicle they were riding in. Like that is different, somehow.

The .50 Cal sniper rifle was developed either during or immediately after the Vietnam War; but that weapon is not fully automatic. The previous sniper gun was a WWII M1, I think.

The drill instructors I had said not to use the M-2HB against people, its role is to lay down suppressive fire, and it is far more effective against vehicles than the M14 or M16.

They told us a lot of stuff, some of which was even true.

But I just looked it up, and it is legal. It may be that they told us that at the time because my training platoon was all from the National Guard (it wasn't that long after Kent State). And we wasted an awful lot of training time learning crowd control techniques using batons when the Pope flew into Boston.

When I went active in 1980, I changed MOS to EW/Sigint (98G), so I never deployed with active duty infantry. The only weapon I ended up cleaning in my first deployment was my re-machined XM-16.


Rob

Even if it was illegal, don't aim for the men, aim for the guns in their hands and the equipment on their backs.

crewdude48 wrote:

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
As I said, that was what they told us at the time.

I went to Ft Benning in 1977 as a National Guardsman; the only .50 cals we trained on were the M2 heavy machine guns. We were told it violated the 1949 geneva convention to use them on people, you were supposed to shoot the vehicle they were riding in. Like that is different, somehow.

The .50 Cal sniper rifle was developed either during or immediately after the Vietnam War; but that weapon is not fully automatic. The previous sniper gun was a WWII M1, I think.

The drill instructors I had said not to use the M-2HB against people, its role is to lay down suppressive fire, and it is far more effective against vehicles than the M14 or M16.

They told us a lot of stuff, some of which was even true.

But I just looked it up, and it is legal. It may be that they told us that at the time because my training platoon was all from the National Guard (it wasn't that long after Kent State). And we wasted an awful lot of training time learning crowd control techniques using batons when the Pope flew into Boston.

When I went active in 1980, I changed MOS to EW/Sigint (98G), so I never deployed with active duty infantry. The only weapon I ended up cleaning in my first deployment was my re-machined XM-16.


Rob

Even if it was illegal, don't aim for the men, aim for the guns in their hands and the equipment on their backs.

If they are facing you, the only way to shoot at the equipment on their backs is to shoot through them, which might well be construed at aiming at the men themselves.

As I said, that was what they told us at the time.

I went to Ft Benning in 1977 as a National Guardsman; the only .50 cals we trained on were the M2 heavy machine guns. We were told it violated the 1949 geneva convention to use them on people, you were supposed to shoot the vehicle they were riding in. Like that is different, somehow.

The .50 Cal sniper rifle was developed either during or immediately after the Vietnam War; but that weapon is not fully automatic. The previous sniper gun was a WWII M1, I think.

I wonder if it wasn't a garbled reference to international law just to keep recruits from misusing a weapon - not just the "hey, gunning down protesters is a no-no" but also, or moreso "use a more appropriate caliber on people".

JeffEngel wrote:

As I said, that was what they told us at the time.

I went to Ft Benning in 1977 as a National Guardsman; the only .50 cals we trained on were the M2 heavy machine guns. We were told it violated the 1949 geneva convention to use them on people, you were supposed to shoot the vehicle they were riding in. Like that is different, somehow.

The .50 Cal sniper rifle was developed either during or immediately after the Vietnam War; but that weapon is not fully automatic. The previous sniper gun was a WWII M1, I think.

I wonder if it wasn't a garbled reference to international law just to keep recruits from misusing a weapon - not just the "hey, gunning down protesters is a no-no" but also, or moreso "use a more appropriate caliber on people".

Might have had something to do with the fact that my ASA company only mounted the weapon on the 2 1/2 ton trucks, which were driven by either cooks or supply types. In Germany, in those days, we were using mirrors under vehicles coming in the gates to stop car bombs, and there were some nasty incidents of terrorists making bombs out of small fire extinguishers and sliding them under the seat of a car with US plates. Someone sitting in a seat would push the lever. . .

For those who don't remember those days, Americans did not use european-style license plates, even on their POVs. A couple of people got their legs blown off the week I got there in Feb 82.

Besides the local terrorists (Baader-Meinhof, Red Brigades, other communist or anarchist oddballs) and various WP intel agencies, the local nationals really hated having our nukes located there. There was always something. . .

None of which is related to the Honorverse.

It is odd, as far as I know we have not seen any Honorverse tanks, I imagine that they would be like Golems from Bolo, IE a gigantic countergrav supertank with a set of cruiser rang grazers and a lot of armor, not the all up Bolo though i can fantasize about one of those in Cauldron of Ghosts, though it would be utterly unfait to the other side, that is the POINT of starting a war though right?

crewdude48 wrote:

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
As I said, that was what they told us at the time.

I went to Ft Benning in 1977 as a National Guardsman; the only .50 cals we trained on were the M2 heavy machine guns. We were told it violated the 1949 geneva convention to use them on people, you were supposed to shoot the vehicle they were riding in. Like that is different, somehow.

The .50 Cal sniper rifle was developed either during or immediately after the Vietnam War; but that weapon is not fully automatic. The previous sniper gun was a WWII M1, I think.

The drill instructors I had said not to use the M-2HB against people, its role is to lay down suppressive fire, and it is far more effective against vehicles than the M14 or M16.

They told us a lot of stuff, some of which was even true.

But I just looked it up, and it is legal. It may be that they told us that at the time because my training platoon was all from the National Guard (it wasn't that long after Kent State). And we wasted an awful lot of training time learning crowd control techniques using batons when the Pope flew into Boston.

When I went active in 1980, I changed MOS to EW/Sigint (98G), so I never deployed with active duty infantry. The only weapon I ended up cleaning in my first deployment was my re-machined XM-16.


Rob

Even if it was illegal, don't aim for the men, aim for the guns in their hands and the equipment on their backs.

Better yet, throw rotten eggs...although the stink might cause you to be put on trial for a war crime!

Don

BrigadeΔ wrote:It is odd, as far as I know we have not seen any Honorverse tanks, I imagine that they would be like Golems from Bolo, IE a gigantic countergrav supertank with a set of cruiser rang grazers and a lot of armor, not the all up Bolo though i can fantasize about one of those in Cauldron of Ghosts, though it would be utterly unfait to the other side, that is the POINT of starting a war though right?

Used on Mobius. But they weren't front line equipment.

Rob
edited, I hate trackpads.